6 ms·

The Albuquerque "Broken Arrow" Nuclear Accident

106 points by dxs 2y ago

lvspiff 2y ago
You mean the awesome 1996 classic action flick with Travolta and Slater, Broken Arrow? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/
- CapitalistCartr 2y ago
  That's the actual term for a bad accident. They're called Dull Sword, Bent Spear, Broken Arrow depending on severity.
- M95D 2y ago
  > A Broken what? > [...] It's what we call it when we lose a nuclear weapon. > I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons, or that it happens so often there's actually a term for it.
bigiain 2y ago
I suspect I have the same "nuclear archaeologist cyber-friend" as the author. I sent a Twitter "friend" (who labelled himself a nuclear anthropologist instead of archeologist) a copy of a book called "100 Suns" by Michael Light, which is a coffee table sized book full of photos of nuclear tests. The book is eerily beautiful: http://www.michaellight.net/suns-intro http://www.michaellight.net/suns-intro In return (and entirely unexpectedly) he send me a small package with a handful of small pieces of that Mark 17 bomb casing he collected in Albuquerque - just like that last pic in the article. They're sitting on a shelf with my piece of Trinitite and my pieces of Maralingite (sand fused to glass by an atomic test in the 50s/60s at Maralinga in South Australia) I have some weird internet friends who know my weird interests...
- BonoboIO 2y ago
  His photographs are breath taking http://www.michaellight.net/black-mountain http://www.michaellight.net/black-mountain I‘m stumbling down a rabbit hole of pictures
  - shrx 2y ago
    Thanks for sharing, amazing photos. I actually have his book "100 suns" but haven't got around to check out his other works until now.
  - internet_points 2y ago
    My browser didn't show the accompanying text at first for some reason, so I thought I was looking at some kind of experimental military base, so depressing "oh the workers get pools I guess they must be well compensated for working in such a bleak environment" and then at the end I click the (i) button and see it's a gated community for the ultra rich
    - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
      Houses of the ultra rich usually are further apart, with much more space (green, forest, whatever) between them, not so densely packed.
  - tetris11 2y ago
    The scars we inflict on our planet for the sake of pragmatism I can somewhat live with. It's for the sake of vanity that makes me sick.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Is it much of a scar? Only future archaeologists will know when they dig up rocks from our era 1000 years from now. And the payoff has been no major war since 1945, despite infinite animosity and huge defense budgets on all sides.
    - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
      I'm afraid you are preaching to the choir my friend, this is the platform of "entrepreneurs" after all.
- Syonyk 2y ago
  I forgot about that book. I'd seen a copy years ago. I didn't have anywhere near the money to buy it at that point. ... and looking at used copies, I'm still not going to drop that coin on the book. But thank you, I didn't know there were some online copies of the photos.
  - bigiain 2y ago
    If you're ever in Sydney Australia, you're welcome to look through my copy.
20after4 2y ago
There have been many broken arrows¹. Each one is a terrifying and fascinating story and it's one of my favorite Wikipedia rabbit holes which I think everyone should be at least somewhat familiar with. At least to appreciate the real, terrible costs of developing, and then maintaining these weapons, in a high alert operational state, continuously for many decades. The fact that most of these accidents were classified and hidden from the public, for 20 or 30 years, is troubling. The military (correctly) assumed that they would lose a lot of public support had the truth been known at the time. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_nuclear_incident_terminology#Broken_Arrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_nuclear... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accid...
- walrus01 2y ago
  You can also thank Curtis LeMay for maintaining the practice of 24x7 alert heavy bomber aircraft carrying live weapons many years after the point where they were no longer necessary, once long range ICBM tech had advanced to the point that a credible MAD deterrence force could be implemented by land based silo alert missiles and crews. By the late 1960s land based ICBMs were significantly improved from the early liquid fueled absurdities, and submarine based missiles were also advancing rapidly in range and reliability.
  - 20after4 2y ago
    It seems insane to me that anyone ever thought that was a good idea.
    - jgeada 2y ago
      It was a very profitable idea, either in actual $$$ or in access to power, for some. That is all that usually matters around here.
    - XorNot 2y ago
      Airbases are in well known fixed locations. If your nuclear bomber fleet, and it's armaments, are all on the ground then it is entirely plausible that a sneak attack could decapitate the entire force. If that's your only nuclear force, then you have suddenly and immediately lost the war, lest the successful enemy then proceed to simply bomb your cities with impunity. The whole problem with nuclear weapons was you only needed a handful to annihilate the entire opposing force.
Syonyk 2y ago
If you like reading about this sort of stuff, the book "Command & Control" is a fascinating read on the US nuclear weapons history, close calls, etc. It's dense, but well worth the read for a view into nuclear weapons "incidents" (to include some weapons losses, I don't recall if this story is in that book or not) during the cold war.
- a4000 2y ago
  I agree this is an excellent book on the subject of nuclear weapons, also very well written and researched.
crmd 2y ago
For any engineer interested in nuclear weapons, I highly recommend this three-part series produced by Sandia National Laboratory on their development of Permissive Action Link, the warhead’s electrical isolation and cryptological module that ensures US nuclear weapons will detonate if any only if authorized by the President. It’s fascinating how they thought about bad path scenarios like thermal damage causing carbon tracking of PCBs potentially defeating the control system. It is called “Always/Never: The Quest for Safety, Control, and Survivability” Part 1: https://youtu.be/DQEB3LJ5psk https://youtu.be/DQEB3LJ5psk Part 2: https://youtu.be/sb2qo5m_hTY https://youtu.be/sb2qo5m_hTY Part 3: https://youtu.be/0a1exo_vU_k https://youtu.be/0a1exo_vU_k
- Syonyk 2y ago
  ... thank you. I didn't know those were floating around. I'd heard of them before, just hadn't had a chance to see them.
  - crmd 2y ago
    You’re most welcome. It’s so cool this level of detail is unclassified and open to all.
- stopping 2y ago
  Small correction: The PAL doesn't handle presidential authentication. It's an extra layer of security to prevent a third party from detonating a warhead should they come into physical possession of one, and is (presumably) a static code which is integral to the operation of the weapon itself. Changing it would require complete reassembly of the warhead. The presidential authentication is handled by the missile crew, and the codes rotate daily. The PAL code is fixed and kept safe in the silo, where it is only accessed and input after the presidential order has been authenticated.
  - Jenk 2y ago
    The presidential missile code was "00000000" throughout many years of the cold war. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/launch-code-for-us-nukes-was-00000000-for-20-years/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/launch-code-for-...
duxup 2y ago
> “Do you have hot cargo aboard?” Meyer’s laconic response was, “Not anymore”. Spoken like a capable engineer.
- aspenmayer 2y ago
  Now that’s a two sentence horror story I haven’t heard before.
greyface- 2y ago
The number of near-miss incidents like this, combined with the fact that we're still here standing, makes a pretty strong case for some kind of many-worlds "anthropic principle" / "quantum immortality" effect, IMO.
mwexler 2y ago
Tangentially related, I am reminded of this quote from the fun-yet-silly film "Broken Arrow" (1996): Giles Prentice: A Broken what? Secretary Baird: Broken Arrow. It's a Class 4 Strategic Theatre Emergency. It's what we call it when we lose a nuclear weapon. Giles Prentice: I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons, or that it happens so often there's actually a term for it. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/quotes/?item=qt0352487 https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/quotes/?item=qt0352487
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  Yeah but it's sort of a catch-22 isn't it? "We have a Class 4 Strategic Theater Emergency, we lost a nuclear weapon." "I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons or not being prepared enough for the situation that you don't have a code name and plans for the situation and you are risking operational security by transmitting the issue in the clear."
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dxs 2y ago
Further reading, from Richard Rhodes: "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" (1986) The best book I ever read. Covers all of modern physics. Written in a "physics for musicians" style, and I don't mean that in a condescending way. It's praise. Besides the tech, there is lots on politics, espionage, international relations, and military history, including sections on the German, Soviet, and Japanese activities before and during WWII. "Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb" (1995) Great explanations of how the fission-fusion-fission process works, all in millionths of a second. I still can hardly believe how Rhodes is able to explain some of the most complicated technical concepts and processes in ordinary language. A truly amazing writer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rhodes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rhodes
- 542354234235 2y ago
  Both are excellent books. Further Reading: “Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety” by Eric Schlosser “Nuclear War: A Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen “Restricted Data: A Nuclear History Blog” by Alex Wellerstein; https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/ https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/ Technical reference. https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/ https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/
Theory42 2y ago
If the plutonium core was removed, as indicated in the blog, why was the impact crater radioactive?

106 points by dxs 2y ago

You mean the awesome 1996 classic action flick with Travolta and Slater, Broken Arrow? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/

CapitalistCartr 2y ago
That's the actual term for a bad accident. They're called Dull Sword, Bent Spear, Broken Arrow depending on severity.
M95D 2y ago
> A Broken what? > [...] It's what we call it when we lose a nuclear weapon. > I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons, or that it happens so often there's actually a term for it.

bigiain 2y ago

I suspect I have the same "nuclear archaeologist cyber-friend" as the author. I sent a Twitter "friend" (who labelled himself a nuclear anthropologist instead of archeologist) a copy of a book called "100 Suns" by Michael Light, which is a coffee table sized book full of photos of nuclear tests. The book is eerily beautiful: http://www.michaellight.net/suns-intro http://www.michaellight.net/suns-intro In return (and entirely unexpectedly) he send me a small package with a handful of small pieces of that Mark 17 bomb casing he collected in Albuquerque - just like that last pic in the article. They're sitting on a shelf with my piece of Trinitite and my pieces of Maralingite (sand fused to glass by an atomic test in the 50s/60s at Maralinga in South Australia) I have some weird internet friends who know my weird interests...

BonoboIO 2y ago
His photographs are breath taking http://www.michaellight.net/black-mountain http://www.michaellight.net/black-mountain I‘m stumbling down a rabbit hole of pictures
- shrx 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing, amazing photos. I actually have his book "100 suns" but haven't got around to check out his other works until now.
- internet_points 2y ago
  My browser didn't show the accompanying text at first for some reason, so I thought I was looking at some kind of experimental military base, so depressing "oh the workers get pools I guess they must be well compensated for working in such a bleak environment" and then at the end I click the (i) button and see it's a gated community for the ultra rich
  - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
    Houses of the ultra rich usually are further apart, with much more space (green, forest, whatever) between them, not so densely packed.
- tetris11 2y ago
  The scars we inflict on our planet for the sake of pragmatism I can somewhat live with. It's for the sake of vanity that makes me sick.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Is it much of a scar? Only future archaeologists will know when they dig up rocks from our era 1000 years from now. And the payoff has been no major war since 1945, despite infinite animosity and huge defense budgets on all sides.
  - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
    I'm afraid you are preaching to the choir my friend, this is the platform of "entrepreneurs" after all.
Syonyk 2y ago
I forgot about that book. I'd seen a copy years ago. I didn't have anywhere near the money to buy it at that point. ... and looking at used copies, I'm still not going to drop that coin on the book. But thank you, I didn't know there were some online copies of the photos.
- bigiain 2y ago
  If you're ever in Sydney Australia, you're welcome to look through my copy.

20after4 2y ago

There have been many broken arrows¹. Each one is a terrifying and fascinating story and it's one of my favorite Wikipedia rabbit holes which I think everyone should be at least somewhat familiar with. At least to appreciate the real, terrible costs of developing, and then maintaining these weapons, in a high alert operational state, continuously for many decades. The fact that most of these accidents were classified and hidden from the public, for 20 or 30 years, is troubling. The military (correctly) assumed that they would lose a lot of public support had the truth been known at the time. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_nuclear_incident_terminology#Broken_Arrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_nuclear... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accid...

walrus01 2y ago
You can also thank Curtis LeMay for maintaining the practice of 24x7 alert heavy bomber aircraft carrying live weapons many years after the point where they were no longer necessary, once long range ICBM tech had advanced to the point that a credible MAD deterrence force could be implemented by land based silo alert missiles and crews. By the late 1960s land based ICBMs were significantly improved from the early liquid fueled absurdities, and submarine based missiles were also advancing rapidly in range and reliability.
- 20after4 2y ago
  It seems insane to me that anyone ever thought that was a good idea.
  - jgeada 2y ago
    It was a very profitable idea, either in actual $$$ or in access to power, for some. That is all that usually matters around here.
  - XorNot 2y ago
    Airbases are in well known fixed locations. If your nuclear bomber fleet, and it's armaments, are all on the ground then it is entirely plausible that a sneak attack could decapitate the entire force. If that's your only nuclear force, then you have suddenly and immediately lost the war, lest the successful enemy then proceed to simply bomb your cities with impunity. The whole problem with nuclear weapons was you only needed a handful to annihilate the entire opposing force.

Syonyk 2y ago

If you like reading about this sort of stuff, the book "Command & Control" is a fascinating read on the US nuclear weapons history, close calls, etc. It's dense, but well worth the read for a view into nuclear weapons "incidents" (to include some weapons losses, I don't recall if this story is in that book or not) during the cold war.

a4000 2y ago
I agree this is an excellent book on the subject of nuclear weapons, also very well written and researched.

crmd 2y ago

For any engineer interested in nuclear weapons, I highly recommend this three-part series produced by Sandia National Laboratory on their development of Permissive Action Link, the warhead’s electrical isolation and cryptological module that ensures US nuclear weapons will detonate if any only if authorized by the President. It’s fascinating how they thought about bad path scenarios like thermal damage causing carbon tracking of PCBs potentially defeating the control system. It is called “Always/Never: The Quest for Safety, Control, and Survivability” Part 1: https://youtu.be/DQEB3LJ5psk https://youtu.be/DQEB3LJ5psk Part 2: https://youtu.be/sb2qo5m_hTY https://youtu.be/sb2qo5m_hTY Part 3: https://youtu.be/0a1exo_vU_k https://youtu.be/0a1exo_vU_k

Syonyk 2y ago
... thank you. I didn't know those were floating around. I'd heard of them before, just hadn't had a chance to see them.
- crmd 2y ago
  You’re most welcome. It’s so cool this level of detail is unclassified and open to all.
stopping 2y ago
Small correction: The PAL doesn't handle presidential authentication. It's an extra layer of security to prevent a third party from detonating a warhead should they come into physical possession of one, and is (presumably) a static code which is integral to the operation of the weapon itself. Changing it would require complete reassembly of the warhead. The presidential authentication is handled by the missile crew, and the codes rotate daily. The PAL code is fixed and kept safe in the silo, where it is only accessed and input after the presidential order has been authenticated.
- Jenk 2y ago
  The presidential missile code was "00000000" throughout many years of the cold war. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/launch-code-for-us-nukes-was-00000000-for-20-years/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/launch-code-for-...

duxup 2y ago

> “Do you have hot cargo aboard?” Meyer’s laconic response was, “Not anymore”. Spoken like a capable engineer.

aspenmayer 2y ago
Now that’s a two sentence horror story I haven’t heard before.

greyface- 2y ago

The number of near-miss incidents like this, combined with the fact that we're still here standing, makes a pretty strong case for some kind of many-worlds "anthropic principle" / "quantum immortality" effect, IMO.

mwexler 2y ago

Tangentially related, I am reminded of this quote from the fun-yet-silly film "Broken Arrow" (1996): Giles Prentice: A Broken what? Secretary Baird: Broken Arrow. It's a Class 4 Strategic Theatre Emergency. It's what we call it when we lose a nuclear weapon. Giles Prentice: I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons, or that it happens so often there's actually a term for it. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/quotes/?item=qt0352487 https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0115759/quotes/?item=qt0352487

themaninthedark 2y ago
Yeah but it's sort of a catch-22 isn't it? "We have a Class 4 Strategic Theater Emergency, we lost a nuclear weapon." "I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons or not being prepared enough for the situation that you don't have a code name and plans for the situation and you are risking operational security by transmitting the issue in the clear."

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dxs 2y ago

Further reading, from Richard Rhodes: "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" (1986) The best book I ever read. Covers all of modern physics. Written in a "physics for musicians" style, and I don't mean that in a condescending way. It's praise. Besides the tech, there is lots on politics, espionage, international relations, and military history, including sections on the German, Soviet, and Japanese activities before and during WWII. "Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb" (1995) Great explanations of how the fission-fusion-fission process works, all in millionths of a second. I still can hardly believe how Rhodes is able to explain some of the most complicated technical concepts and processes in ordinary language. A truly amazing writer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rhodes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rhodes

542354234235 2y ago
Both are excellent books. Further Reading: “Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety” by Eric Schlosser “Nuclear War: A Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen “Restricted Data: A Nuclear History Blog” by Alex Wellerstein; https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/ https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/ Technical reference. https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/ https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/

Theory42 2y ago

If the plutonium core was removed, as indicated in the blog, why was the impact crater radioactive?