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"Folk ask themselves, why contribute to this thing (MIT/GPL licenses) if there some for-profit entity involved?" You put MIT or GPL in the same bucket here, bu

"Folk ask themselves, why contribute to this thing (MIT/GPL licenses) if there some for-profit entity involved?" You put MIT or GPL in the same bucket here, but really shouldn't because the difference is all that matters. There is no "rug-pull" as you call it. What happened with Redis is what the BSD license allows and what people should expect to happen. The combination of GPL (or AGPL) with a large enough and diverse set of contributors who keep their rights in their contributions is a proven way to prevent what happened with Redis. It is our decision as publishers of open-source projects which way we want to go. It is our decision as contributors which open-source projects we support. Both ways are fine, but blaming others that you regret your decision is not.

homebrewer 2y ago
> The combination of GPL (or AGPL) with a large enough and diverse set of contributors who keep their rights in their contributions is a proven way to prevent what happened with Redis. Also the lack of a CLA (and/or copyright assignment) because many "modern" projects under the GPL ask you to waive your rights away, thus nullifying the license. Do not contribute to them if you have any self-respect. https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/12/DCO.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/12/DCO.html
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- weinzierl 2y ago
  Good to point out CLAs and thanks for the link. It is a good read.
- sanderjd 2y ago
  I have self-respect and have no problem contributing to projects with a CLA and copyright assignment. I recognize that I don't control what happens with my contributions, as I have consciously agreed to their terms. Controlling what happens in the future of a project simply has never had anything to do with my motivations for contributing to a project.
hellcow 2y ago
Mongo was AGPL until 2018. The AGPL didn’t stop Amazon from abusing the open source social contract, hence why Mongo modified the license.
- weinzierl 2y ago
  Yep, but developers signed away their rights to MongoDB Inc. That is why I wrote "contributors who keep their rights in their contributions" above. It is what makes all the difference between MongoDB and Linux, for example. What happened to MongoDB could never happen to Linux.
- _msw_ 2y ago
  Disclosure: I work for Amazon. AWS never offered a service based on the AGPLv3 version of the MongoDB server. Therefore the change of license terms to SSPLv1 was not directly caused by Amazon’s use of the software as part of an offered service, and had no impact to Amazon DocumentDB as an independently developed interoperable protocol implementation. There were cloud providers headquartered in Asia that did offer AGPLv3 based MongoDB server as a service.
liveoneggs 2y ago
The BSD license doesn't allow changing it to another license any more or less than GPL.
- samtheprogram 2y ago
  Yes it does. You can make a private, proprietary app that’s just tweaking a few bits of a BSD project. You can’t do that with the GPL. Following that, unless the project has a CLA (so that the owner of the project reserves all rights of the code that’s contributed and essentially owns the contribution), any contributions made under the GPL cannot be made closed source, can’t be switched to an incompatible license, etc, because the contribution itself is GPL’d.
  - liveoneggs 2y ago
    Creating a commercial version of a thing is not a license change.
    - samtheprogram 2y ago
      Of course, I said proprietary. You said commercial. Proprietary refers to ownership and licensing. While I somewhat conflated it with closed-source in my comment, it nevertheless applies since we are talking about the ability to make it closed source. You can relicense derivative works of MIT or BSD software provided that you satisfy the original license requirements (attribution). This is irrelevant of commercializing it. Conversely, and to your point, you can sell GPL software you didn’t write, or sell a derivative work of it, but because of the copyleft nature, your derivative work must also be licensed under a compatible GPL license.

homebrewer 2y ago

> The combination of GPL (or AGPL) with a large enough and diverse set of contributors who keep their rights in their contributions is a proven way to prevent what happened with Redis. Also the lack of a CLA (and/or copyright assignment) because many "modern" projects under the GPL ask you to waive your rights away, thus nullifying the license. Do not contribute to them if you have any self-respect. https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/12/DCO.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/12/DCO.html

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
weinzierl 2y ago
Good to point out CLAs and thanks for the link. It is a good read.
sanderjd 2y ago
I have self-respect and have no problem contributing to projects with a CLA and copyright assignment. I recognize that I don't control what happens with my contributions, as I have consciously agreed to their terms. Controlling what happens in the future of a project simply has never had anything to do with my motivations for contributing to a project.

hellcow 2y ago

Mongo was AGPL until 2018. The AGPL didn’t stop Amazon from abusing the open source social contract, hence why Mongo modified the license.

weinzierl 2y ago
Yep, but developers signed away their rights to MongoDB Inc. That is why I wrote "contributors who keep their rights in their contributions" above. It is what makes all the difference between MongoDB and Linux, for example. What happened to MongoDB could never happen to Linux.
_msw_ 2y ago
Disclosure: I work for Amazon. AWS never offered a service based on the AGPLv3 version of the MongoDB server. Therefore the change of license terms to SSPLv1 was not directly caused by Amazon’s use of the software as part of an offered service, and had no impact to Amazon DocumentDB as an independently developed interoperable protocol implementation. There were cloud providers headquartered in Asia that did offer AGPLv3 based MongoDB server as a service.

liveoneggs 2y ago

The BSD license doesn't allow changing it to another license any more or less than GPL.

samtheprogram 2y ago
Yes it does. You can make a private, proprietary app that’s just tweaking a few bits of a BSD project. You can’t do that with the GPL. Following that, unless the project has a CLA (so that the owner of the project reserves all rights of the code that’s contributed and essentially owns the contribution), any contributions made under the GPL cannot be made closed source, can’t be switched to an incompatible license, etc, because the contribution itself is GPL’d.
- liveoneggs 2y ago
  Creating a commercial version of a thing is not a license change.
  - samtheprogram 2y ago
    Of course, I said proprietary. You said commercial. Proprietary refers to ownership and licensing. While I somewhat conflated it with closed-source in my comment, it nevertheless applies since we are talking about the ability to make it closed source. You can relicense derivative works of MIT or BSD software provided that you satisfy the original license requirements (attribution). This is irrelevant of commercializing it. Conversely, and to your point, you can sell GPL software you didn’t write, or sell a derivative work of it, but because of the copyleft nature, your derivative work must also be licensed under a compatible GPL license.