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Saying that all immigrants behave the same across the world is like saying all groups of people are the same. The failure of Syrian, Afghan, and Iraqi immigran

• eesmith 2y ago
  > unlike immigrants in Texas. Would successful integration be like in Texas where most Anglos have little knowledge of Tejano culture? Or perhaps you mean the Anglo immigrants who moved to Mexican Texas and promised to follow Mexican law and become Catholic but after they gained power they declared independence as a pro-slavery country, then after economic failure decided to join a neighboring country? The Amish are successfully integrated into Pennsylvania, right? Even though they exist almost as a separate society?
  • Dig1t 2y ago
    From the article: >The impulse behind it is a sense of helplessness over a long-term rise in violent crime. Ten years ago Sweden, with 10m people, had one of the lowest rates of gun violence and murder in Europe. It now has one of the highest, averaging a shooting a day. In 2022, 62 people were shot dead; last year it was 53. The Amish are not shooting people or forming violent gangs, comparing the two is not really a good example. In fact your comparison makes the point that the real reason for the problem in Sweden is the culture of the immigrants and not just the fact that they are immigrants or live as a separate society. The Amish are deeply non-violent, and have no problem existing alongside the rest of the country. The same is not true in Sweden. >Or perhaps you mean the Anglo immigrants It wasn't colonized by only people of Anglo-Saxon origin, but people from all over Europe including Eastern Europe. But yes, Texas was created in the same way that Mexico itself was created and that almost every other nation was created. I think almost every Swede would consider it to be a bad thing if the same thing happened in Sweden.
    • eesmith 2y ago
      > comparing the two is not really a good example I was asking you to explain what appropriate integration would mean when you write 'They exist almost as a separate society within Sweden now, unlike immigrants in Texas.' We know there there are multiple almost separate societies in Texas, so if that's your touchstone, I don't understand it. Brownsville, at 94% Hispanic, is a lot different from Galveston. Regarding 'deeply non-violent', I urge you to consider that pacifism is not the same as non-violent. For example, "The Amish Keep to Themselves. And They’re Hiding a Horrifying Secret" / "A year of reporting—an exclusive partnership between Cosmo and Type Investigations—reveals a culture of incest, rape, and abuse." at https://www.typeinvestigations.org/investigation/2020/01/14/amish-sexual-abuse-assault/ https://www.typeinvestigations.org/investigation/2020/01/14/... . Sexual violence is violence, yes? As for "have no problem existing" I refer you to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Amish_sentiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Amish_sentiment . "Non-Amish hooligans may try to force Amish horses and buggies off the road, throw firecrackers at the horses of Amish people, throw stones at Amish people, or otherwise engage in acts of petty vandalism, harassment, and violence." Plenty of problems, like https://amishamerica.com/why-are-amish-targeted-for-harrassment/ https://amishamerica.com/why-are-amish-targeted-for-harrassm... . So, what does successful integration look like to you, in the Texas context? > by only people of Anglo-Saxon origin Since we were talking about Texas, I was using the localized term, which https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo#United_States correctly describes as "In many parts of the United States, especially those with high Latino populations, the term "Anglo" is applied to white Americans who are not of Latino origin. ... a synonym for non-Latino whites; that is European Americans, most of whom speak the English language, even those who are not necessarily of English or British descent." I don't think you know enough about Texas to make substantive comparisons about societal integration.
      • Dig1t 2y ago
        >Sexual violence is violence, yes? You can define sexual violence in a lot of ways, it's a pretty loose term, I know there are some people who would consider non-consensual arm touching or strong language to be sexual violence. Most people will say that sexual violence and straight up murder via guns and knives are different things though. I'm not saying that the Amish don't have crime or any problems, but that article doesn't have data to show that the rate of sexual violence in the Amish community is higher than in secular communities or other religious communities like Hasidic Jews or Buddhists. Let's not even attempt to talk about sexual violence in the Syrian, Afgan, or Iraqi immigrant communities in Europe. Honestly just look at real crime statistics for different communities, including the Amish, the data speaks for itself. typeinvestigations is a partisan publication, I would not cite their investigative reporting for the same reasons I wouldn't cite Fox News. They are more likely to be motivated by racial hatred of white people than they are to actually be seeking the truth. WRT Anti-Amish sentiment, yeah that's pretty messed up! tbh your arguments just seem to be making more of a case AGAINST multiculturalism, I'm not sure if that's your intent. This shows that even in the case of a completely nonviolent, insular community, harassment and hatred towards an out-group is inevitable. So why the heck do Swedish politicians think it's a good idea to allow a community of people with a very different culture and who DONT have a strong belief in pacifism to live in their country without integrating? From that wikipedia article: >Due to the Amish belief in pacifism, Amish victims of these crimes rarely retaliate.[4] Sorta makes my point about the Amish community. >So, what does successful integration look like to you, in the Texas context? Comparing border towns with the rest of the state is a little unfair as people living there are very likely to be people with strong ties to Mexico (i.e. they physically go to Mexico often) and the least likely to assimilate. If Sweden shared a border with Syria then it would be a little more understandable for people living on the border to keep close ties with Syrian culture. Even just a little ways away from the border towns though Texas towns are much better integrated and similar to the rest of Texas and the US. Texas border towns are undeniably MORE integrated than the case we're talking about in Sweden though. I was in Brownsville a few weeks ago and it's still pretty much America: everyone speaks English and it's taught in schools, the people still are pretty much American. So to answer your question: I would expect the Syrian case to be at least more integrated than what it is, something more like a normal Texas town that's not on the border. e.g. Kingsville. High proportion of ethnically Latino people but still very much American in culture.