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What about these is a downgrade?! Surge protection remains useful until it triggers due to a surge, and a non-protected home in contrast would just have a lot

What about these is a downgrade?! Surge protection remains useful until it triggers due to a surge, and a non-protected home in contrast would just have a lot of the devices inside it fried. AFDDs may not live as long as a "normal" RCD but replacing them isn't that big of a deal compared to the fire risk it prevents - about 1/3 of all residential fires are due to faulty electrical stuff. The only thing I can see as annoying are protected outlets, but hey... a slight annoyance compared to a child getting an electric shock, a small price to pay.

potato3732842 2y ago
Brushed motors routinely trip arc fault breakers, it'a a fundamental problem with them that can't be fixed because brushes will always arc a bit. Normal breakers DGAF. Arc fault and GFI breakers have a way higher DOA and crib death rate than conventional breakers. The other comment addressed the tamper resistant outlets but additionally the outlets themselves don't last as long because they get used more roughly than non-tamper resistant ones.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > Brushed motors routinely trip arc fault breakers, it'a a fundamental problem with them that can't be fixed because brushes will always arc a bit What kind of device do normal households use that's still using brushed motors directly attached to mains?! It used to be power drills and vacuums, but it's been ages since I last saw one. Maybe power tools for shops and farms, okay, but in that case just leave that one circuit secured with a plain RCD breaker and keep the rest with AFDDs. > Arc fault and GFI breakers have a way higher DOA and crib death rate than conventional breakers. RCDs of ye olde days aka 70s, yes, they tend to get more sensitive as they age for some reason, but modern RCDs are rare to see DOA.
  - mindslight 2y ago
    Where have your corded vacuums gone? Or have European ones really moved past using universal motors and onto brushless motors with a driver? I know cordless ones have taken off and they're great for small jobs, but I can't imagine relying on one for thorough cleanups. Corded power tools still exist and it's nice to be able to plug them into any receptacle where you may be working, but I get that it's a tradeoff you just have to do a little more to work around. I do hate the issue of having more hidden proprietary software blobs though. One of the reasons I've put off upgrading to AFCIs is that it feels like I've got to really research the differences between brands before I commit by buying into a specific style of panel.

potato3732842 2y ago

Brushed motors routinely trip arc fault breakers, it'a a fundamental problem with them that can't be fixed because brushes will always arc a bit. Normal breakers DGAF. Arc fault and GFI breakers have a way higher DOA and crib death rate than conventional breakers. The other comment addressed the tamper resistant outlets but additionally the outlets themselves don't last as long because they get used more roughly than non-tamper resistant ones.

mschuster91 2y ago
> Brushed motors routinely trip arc fault breakers, it'a a fundamental problem with them that can't be fixed because brushes will always arc a bit What kind of device do normal households use that's still using brushed motors directly attached to mains?! It used to be power drills and vacuums, but it's been ages since I last saw one. Maybe power tools for shops and farms, okay, but in that case just leave that one circuit secured with a plain RCD breaker and keep the rest with AFDDs. > Arc fault and GFI breakers have a way higher DOA and crib death rate than conventional breakers. RCDs of ye olde days aka 70s, yes, they tend to get more sensitive as they age for some reason, but modern RCDs are rare to see DOA.
- mindslight 2y ago
  Where have your corded vacuums gone? Or have European ones really moved past using universal motors and onto brushless motors with a driver? I know cordless ones have taken off and they're great for small jobs, but I can't imagine relying on one for thorough cleanups. Corded power tools still exist and it's nice to be able to plug them into any receptacle where you may be working, but I get that it's a tradeoff you just have to do a little more to work around. I do hate the issue of having more hidden proprietary software blobs though. One of the reasons I've put off upgrading to AFCIs is that it feels like I've got to really research the differences between brands before I commit by buying into a specific style of panel.