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Rust is the most promising up-and-coming programming language, in my opinion. Finally a programming language with decent syntax that does RAII, and understands

Rust is the most promising up-and-coming programming language, in my opinion. Finally a programming language with decent syntax that does RAII, and understands the need to restrict garbage collection! Thanks!

qznc 14y ago
Why not D?
- gecko 14y ago
  Because, faced with the fact that C++ makes an octopus by nailing extra legs onto a dog, D decided the right thing to do was to staple-gun them onto a cheetah instead. D, at the end of the day, is C++ with cleaner syntax. Yes, you've gotten rid of headers and some of the syntactic ambiguities, but things that were mutable are still mutable, templates are still templates, hard-to-solve threading problems are just as hard to solve, etc. Indeed, I'd argue this is one of the reasons why C++ coders generally like D: it's the same damn thing with the most painful dumbth removed. Rust, on the other hand, focuses on having different semantics from C++, in order to make certain problems much easier to solve. The big one is immutability, which makes code easier to reason about, and vastly simplifies multithreaded code compared to its D or C++ counterparts. But there are other major semantic differences, such as region pointers, the lack of nulls, and more, that really solve the semantic issues that crop up in C++ programs. I know people who like D, and are highly productive in it, but Rust is solving a very different problem in a very different way.
  - incredimike 14y ago
    This isn't very relevant to the topic, but I wanted to thank you for the colourful and hilarious metaphor. Cheers.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    This is why I'm excited to pick up Rust. I feel like Go makes it very easy for me to get running and churn stuff out with a simple syntax but Rust seems to be bringing in more of the "new" in CS and I want to give that a shot. Rust has surplanted my interest in D and this comment is pretty much exactly why. When I look at D I see a lot of C/C++ type things that make me go "Wait, I thought this was D and not C++ improved".
  - WalterBright 14y ago
    D has extensive support for transitive data immutability, and function purity. (This is quite unlike C++.)
  - ntrel 14y ago
    > things that were mutable are still mutable `string` is immutable. You can use immutable everywhere if you like. C++ doesn't even have transitive const. > templates are still templates With constraints, unlike C++. > hard-to-solve threading problems are just as hard to solve Have you looked at D 2.0? Globals are thread-local by default, unlike C++. Implicit sharing is disallowed, unless immutable. > region pointers It's early days (perhaps I don't fully get region/borrowed pointers yet) but D's `scope` parameter keyword seems very similar. It prevents an argument escaping the function call. > lack of nulls This is the big one. Unfortunately D doesn't seem to have an answer on this. I understand Rust uses option/sum types for this, which seems like a great idea.
- sbmassey 14y ago
  D's garbage collection is global, and either off or on (and a lot of D libraries leak memory like crazy if it is off, so in practice it has to be on most of the time) Rust's per task GC seems like it should allow more flexibility, and I'm hoping it would be usable in the High Frequency Trading arena, for example.
  - ntrel 14y ago
    > D's garbage collection is global, and either off or on That makes it sound like you can't use GC and manual memory management together; you can - std.container uses manual memory management internally for max efficiency.
FrameCluster 14y ago
Why not haxe ?

qznc 14y ago

Why not D?

gecko 14y ago
Because, faced with the fact that C++ makes an octopus by nailing extra legs onto a dog, D decided the right thing to do was to staple-gun them onto a cheetah instead. D, at the end of the day, is C++ with cleaner syntax. Yes, you've gotten rid of headers and some of the syntactic ambiguities, but things that were mutable are still mutable, templates are still templates, hard-to-solve threading problems are just as hard to solve, etc. Indeed, I'd argue this is one of the reasons why C++ coders generally like D: it's the same damn thing with the most painful dumbth removed. Rust, on the other hand, focuses on having different semantics from C++, in order to make certain problems much easier to solve. The big one is immutability, which makes code easier to reason about, and vastly simplifies multithreaded code compared to its D or C++ counterparts. But there are other major semantic differences, such as region pointers, the lack of nulls, and more, that really solve the semantic issues that crop up in C++ programs. I know people who like D, and are highly productive in it, but Rust is solving a very different problem in a very different way.
- incredimike 14y ago
  This isn't very relevant to the topic, but I wanted to thank you for the colourful and hilarious metaphor. Cheers.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  This is why I'm excited to pick up Rust. I feel like Go makes it very easy for me to get running and churn stuff out with a simple syntax but Rust seems to be bringing in more of the "new" in CS and I want to give that a shot. Rust has surplanted my interest in D and this comment is pretty much exactly why. When I look at D I see a lot of C/C++ type things that make me go "Wait, I thought this was D and not C++ improved".
- WalterBright 14y ago
  D has extensive support for transitive data immutability, and function purity. (This is quite unlike C++.)
- ntrel 14y ago
  > things that were mutable are still mutable `string` is immutable. You can use immutable everywhere if you like. C++ doesn't even have transitive const. > templates are still templates With constraints, unlike C++. > hard-to-solve threading problems are just as hard to solve Have you looked at D 2.0? Globals are thread-local by default, unlike C++. Implicit sharing is disallowed, unless immutable. > region pointers It's early days (perhaps I don't fully get region/borrowed pointers yet) but D's `scope` parameter keyword seems very similar. It prevents an argument escaping the function call. > lack of nulls This is the big one. Unfortunately D doesn't seem to have an answer on this. I understand Rust uses option/sum types for this, which seems like a great idea.
sbmassey 14y ago
D's garbage collection is global, and either off or on (and a lot of D libraries leak memory like crazy if it is off, so in practice it has to be on most of the time) Rust's per task GC seems like it should allow more flexibility, and I'm hoping it would be usable in the High Frequency Trading arena, for example.
- ntrel 14y ago
  > D's garbage collection is global, and either off or on That makes it sound like you can't use GC and manual memory management together; you can - std.container uses manual memory management internally for max efficiency.

FrameCluster 14y ago

Why not haxe ?