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> Pretty much every other high GDP country in the world has single payer healthcare. This is just completely not true. Take France and Germany for example. >

> Pretty much every other high GDP country in the world has single payer healthcare. This is just completely not true. Take France and Germany for example. > Guess how many people get told their anaesthesia won’t be covered for their full surgery. That shouldn’t even be a question, and yet the US system makes it one. So anesthesiologists should be able to ask for any amount their heart desires and the insurance is the bad guy if they don’t want to pay it? Anesthesiologists have a profit motive too, you know.

bendauphinee 2y ago
> All French citizens are required to have health insurance, and there are three main health insurance funds. The funds are non-profit and negotiate with the state on healthcare funding. > Does Germany have free public healthcare? Yes, all Germans and legal residents of Germany are entitled to free “medically necessary” public healthcare, which is funded by social security contributions. However, citizens must still have either state or private health insurance, covering at least hospital and outpatient medical treatment and pregnancy.
- ChadNauseam 2y ago
  Neither of those are single-payer systems, which you can see by the fact that both of your quotations involve multiple payers. Google "does france have single payer healthcare" or "does germany have single payer healthcare" for more info
ceejayoz 2y ago
> So anesthesiologists should be able to ask for any amount their heart desires and the insurance is the bad guy if they don’t want to pay it? Obviously not; if they're billing 72 hours a day, that's fraud. If my procedure goes long because of a complication, I'd still prefer they not wake me up mid-procedure for a credit card and signature.
- ChadNauseam 2y ago
  Naturally they would not wake you up mid-procedure for payment, nor ask you for payment later. What anthem wanted to do was put a cap on the number of billable hours per procedure, and have anesthesiologists accept payment based on that cap as "payment in full", meaning they would not expect additional payment for the extra time they spent after a procedure went long, either from the patient or the insurerer. This would have resulted in anesthesiologists making less money (as well as having less opportunity for fraud), which is why they didn't like it. But it was presented in popular media as if the insurance company was trying to shift the cost of overlong procedures onto the patient, rather than onto the anesthesiologists. Thankfully there was a public outcry and the anesthesiologists won, well-deservedly so considering they must be barely scraping by on a median income of $470,000/year.
  - snatekay 2y ago
    > What anthem wanted to do was put a cap on the number of billable hours per procedure, and have anesthesiologists accept payment based on that cap as "payment in full", meaning they would not expect additional payment for the extra time they spent after a procedure went long, either from the patient or the insurerer. The policy even had a path for the anesthesiologist to justify the overrun so that portion could be covered too. No doubt Anthem would scrutinize the justification closely and reject cases where they detect abuse, and the incentives are for Anthem to be too strict, but there was nothing wrong with the policy on its face. These sorts of things are absolutely necessary in order to drive healthcare costs, which are absolutely obscene, down.

bendauphinee 2y ago

> All French citizens are required to have health insurance, and there are three main health insurance funds. The funds are non-profit and negotiate with the state on healthcare funding. > Does Germany have free public healthcare? Yes, all Germans and legal residents of Germany are entitled to free “medically necessary” public healthcare, which is funded by social security contributions. However, citizens must still have either state or private health insurance, covering at least hospital and outpatient medical treatment and pregnancy.

ChadNauseam 2y ago
Neither of those are single-payer systems, which you can see by the fact that both of your quotations involve multiple payers. Google "does france have single payer healthcare" or "does germany have single payer healthcare" for more info

ceejayoz 2y ago

> So anesthesiologists should be able to ask for any amount their heart desires and the insurance is the bad guy if they don’t want to pay it? Obviously not; if they're billing 72 hours a day, that's fraud. If my procedure goes long because of a complication, I'd still prefer they not wake me up mid-procedure for a credit card and signature.

ChadNauseam 2y ago
Naturally they would not wake you up mid-procedure for payment, nor ask you for payment later. What anthem wanted to do was put a cap on the number of billable hours per procedure, and have anesthesiologists accept payment based on that cap as "payment in full", meaning they would not expect additional payment for the extra time they spent after a procedure went long, either from the patient or the insurerer. This would have resulted in anesthesiologists making less money (as well as having less opportunity for fraud), which is why they didn't like it. But it was presented in popular media as if the insurance company was trying to shift the cost of overlong procedures onto the patient, rather than onto the anesthesiologists. Thankfully there was a public outcry and the anesthesiologists won, well-deservedly so considering they must be barely scraping by on a median income of $470,000/year.
- snatekay 2y ago
  > What anthem wanted to do was put a cap on the number of billable hours per procedure, and have anesthesiologists accept payment based on that cap as "payment in full", meaning they would not expect additional payment for the extra time they spent after a procedure went long, either from the patient or the insurerer. The policy even had a path for the anesthesiologist to justify the overrun so that portion could be covered too. No doubt Anthem would scrutinize the justification closely and reject cases where they detect abuse, and the incentives are for Anthem to be too strict, but there was nothing wrong with the policy on its face. These sorts of things are absolutely necessary in order to drive healthcare costs, which are absolutely obscene, down.