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Nailed it. Indoor farming doesn't work at scale for tree crops. The soviets had quasi indoor "pineapple pit" style plantations of citruses in far north of their

Nailed it. Indoor farming doesn't work at scale for tree crops. The soviets had quasi indoor "pineapple pit" style plantations of citruses in far north of their effective ranges. Imagine something like a subterranean greenhouse in trench format -- yet even in a planned economy that was hardly a viable project. But the Spanish monks who gave gave California olive trees were on to something. If you plant enough new olives from seed then you can eventually find and develop a variety that grows well in your particular climate. This obviates the need for sheltering the tree much or at all. No offense mate but I bet if we accounted for the cost of your grow light setup your eventual harvest might could be some of the most expensive olives in the world. No hate though, I've got an olive tree indoors too (though just in a window).

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
>If you plant enough new olives from seed then you can eventually find and develop a variety that grows well in your particular climate. Yeh, "Mission" olives. One of the cuttings is that. Allegedly one of the most cold-hardy cultivars. It might survive outside with our winters (yay global warming) if I get the trunk to about 4" before it has to make its own way outdoors. Hoping anyway. >No offense mate but I bet if we accounted for the cost of your grow light setup your eventual harvest might could be some of the most expensive olives in the world. Oh, for sure. These are my end-of-the-world olive trees. Mostly keeping them inside now because it's winter. Starting in March, they should be able to go outside until Halloween or so. I should be able to get more cuttings off of each (Mission, Pendolino, Arbequina), and make several dozen trees. But some will always be indoors as mother trees for more cuttings. And yeh pineapples are absurd. But my daughter just finally nailed getting the tops to root... putting them in a jar of water just rots the crown here (air quality, humidity? dunno). She dried one out until it looked dead, then trimmed the bottom a bit more, and there was nice living tissue, a pretty yellow. That was able to be put to moisture, and it rooted in a few weeks. The greenhouse square footage for something like "one pineapple a month" would be on the order of 350sqft, and we're unclear if they can be staggered. Sometimes these plants decide to all bloom at once, even if some are overdue and others premature. We have a list of "things we can't live without if the rest of you monkeys shit the bed and and can't sell it to us anymore". If anyone knows anybody at Foundation Plant Services at UCB and would like to do me a favor, private message me? Just need someone to put in a word for me.
- jnmandal 2y ago
  Nice. Good luck. It sounds like we are up to similar things. Its nice to see that. I wish there were more forums for this specific type of discussion. > We have a list of "things we can't live without if the rest of you monkeys shit the bed and and can't sell it to us anymore". Not trying to be obtuse about this because I get it... but if we end up in this situation, I think olives and pineapples will be one of our least concerns. Both are great plants to grow and experiment with. I also grow olives, fruits, all kinds of berries, etc. But due to the rather interconnected nature of both the global economy and the global climate system, it may be that if we ever begin to see items like that in widespread failure we could simultaneously be overwhelmed w/ larger problems. Lets say massive food price inflation, isolated famines/shortages, and ultimately total base calories for our diet. So while I don't disagree with your sentiment at all I would just say that I hope you have things like grains and staples on that list. Sweet potatoes are a relatively nutrient-rich and calorie dense food that are technically perennial and can be grown in similar format to how you describe your olives and pineapples (take them indoors in winter, use some greenhouses to extend season, etc). Bananas are similarly useful if you are in the right climate. In the biosphere 2 experiment, sweet potatoes constituted the bulk of their diet (source: https://ecotechnics.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Advances-Space-Research-1995-Food-and-Nutrition-Bio2-Silverstone-and-Nelson.pdf https://ecotechnics.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Advances-...). In a worst case scenario we might even end up in victory garden type situation and need to plant corn, beans, etc wherever we have space to do so. > anybody at Foundation Plant Services at UCB As for this, I'm not in your region so I have no connections there but I highly recommend just finding a few names and emailing them about your project. I've done similar with people all over the and I normally do get a reply. Most recently an Israeli horticulturalist I had read about on HN responded and gave me germination tips for some trees I am growing after I emailed her. Happy gardening mate. :)
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    >Not trying to be obtuse about this because I get it... but if we end up in this situation, I think olives and pineapples will be one of our least concerns. Lower priority sure. But, people who only pay attention to the highest priorities are likely to be miserable even if they make it. >So while I don't disagree with your sentiment at all I would just say that I hope you have things like grains and staples on that list. I have things like Megasphaera hexanoica and Clostridium acetobutylicum on the list. Grains are there, but the truth of the matter is until I can secure acreage that stuff's put on hold. Am trying to find one of the old pull-type combines, some other equipment (I have storage if I can buy them now). >but I highly recommend just finding a few names and emailing them about your project. They're not interested in talking to me. Their minimum order's a little high for a cultivar of pistachio I need for rootstock, doesn't seem to be any other option. One or two nurseries will sell a single sapling for $70 or so, but multiplying that into the 20 or 30 trees I want to start with will take a long time. They sell seed for $1 each, but their minimum order's a bit absurd. Told me "that's just two pieces of budwood to get you to the minimum"... what am I going to do with budwood when I'm buying rootstock seed right this moment? My current plan is to just get terebinthus and vera seed, grow both, and hybridize them myself. Only a 10 yr setback, shouldn't be a problem.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

>If you plant enough new olives from seed then you can eventually find and develop a variety that grows well in your particular climate. Yeh, "Mission" olives. One of the cuttings is that. Allegedly one of the most cold-hardy cultivars. It might survive outside with our winters (yay global warming) if I get the trunk to about 4" before it has to make its own way outdoors. Hoping anyway. >No offense mate but I bet if we accounted for the cost of your grow light setup your eventual harvest might could be some of the most expensive olives in the world. Oh, for sure. These are my end-of-the-world olive trees. Mostly keeping them inside now because it's winter. Starting in March, they should be able to go outside until Halloween or so. I should be able to get more cuttings off of each (Mission, Pendolino, Arbequina), and make several dozen trees. But some will always be indoors as mother trees for more cuttings. And yeh pineapples are absurd. But my daughter just finally nailed getting the tops to root... putting them in a jar of water just rots the crown here (air quality, humidity? dunno). She dried one out until it looked dead, then trimmed the bottom a bit more, and there was nice living tissue, a pretty yellow. That was able to be put to moisture, and it rooted in a few weeks. The greenhouse square footage for something like "one pineapple a month" would be on the order of 350sqft, and we're unclear if they can be staggered. Sometimes these plants decide to all bloom at once, even if some are overdue and others premature. We have a list of "things we can't live without if the rest of you monkeys shit the bed and and can't sell it to us anymore". If anyone knows anybody at Foundation Plant Services at UCB and would like to do me a favor, private message me? Just need someone to put in a word for me.

jnmandal 2y ago
Nice. Good luck. It sounds like we are up to similar things. Its nice to see that. I wish there were more forums for this specific type of discussion. > We have a list of "things we can't live without if the rest of you monkeys shit the bed and and can't sell it to us anymore". Not trying to be obtuse about this because I get it... but if we end up in this situation, I think olives and pineapples will be one of our least concerns. Both are great plants to grow and experiment with. I also grow olives, fruits, all kinds of berries, etc. But due to the rather interconnected nature of both the global economy and the global climate system, it may be that if we ever begin to see items like that in widespread failure we could simultaneously be overwhelmed w/ larger problems. Lets say massive food price inflation, isolated famines/shortages, and ultimately total base calories for our diet. So while I don't disagree with your sentiment at all I would just say that I hope you have things like grains and staples on that list. Sweet potatoes are a relatively nutrient-rich and calorie dense food that are technically perennial and can be grown in similar format to how you describe your olives and pineapples (take them indoors in winter, use some greenhouses to extend season, etc). Bananas are similarly useful if you are in the right climate. In the biosphere 2 experiment, sweet potatoes constituted the bulk of their diet (source: https://ecotechnics.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Advances-Space-Research-1995-Food-and-Nutrition-Bio2-Silverstone-and-Nelson.pdf https://ecotechnics.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Advances-...). In a worst case scenario we might even end up in victory garden type situation and need to plant corn, beans, etc wherever we have space to do so. > anybody at Foundation Plant Services at UCB As for this, I'm not in your region so I have no connections there but I highly recommend just finding a few names and emailing them about your project. I've done similar with people all over the and I normally do get a reply. Most recently an Israeli horticulturalist I had read about on HN responded and gave me germination tips for some trees I am growing after I emailed her. Happy gardening mate. :)
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  >Not trying to be obtuse about this because I get it... but if we end up in this situation, I think olives and pineapples will be one of our least concerns. Lower priority sure. But, people who only pay attention to the highest priorities are likely to be miserable even if they make it. >So while I don't disagree with your sentiment at all I would just say that I hope you have things like grains and staples on that list. I have things like Megasphaera hexanoica and Clostridium acetobutylicum on the list. Grains are there, but the truth of the matter is until I can secure acreage that stuff's put on hold. Am trying to find one of the old pull-type combines, some other equipment (I have storage if I can buy them now). >but I highly recommend just finding a few names and emailing them about your project. They're not interested in talking to me. Their minimum order's a little high for a cultivar of pistachio I need for rootstock, doesn't seem to be any other option. One or two nurseries will sell a single sapling for $70 or so, but multiplying that into the 20 or 30 trees I want to start with will take a long time. They sell seed for $1 each, but their minimum order's a bit absurd. Told me "that's just two pieces of budwood to get you to the minimum"... what am I going to do with budwood when I'm buying rootstock seed right this moment? My current plan is to just get terebinthus and vera seed, grow both, and hybridize them myself. Only a 10 yr setback, shouldn't be a problem.