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A few days ago, HN had "The pitchforks are coming for us plutocrats."[1] I wrote, no, otherwise the US wouldn't have elected a billionaire as a populist preside

A few days ago, HN had "The pitchforks are coming for us plutocrats."[1] I wrote, no, otherwise the US wouldn't have elected a billionaire as a populist president. Maybe that was wrong. The US has historically been a safe space for the rich. There's never been anything like the French Revolution, or the Russian Revolution, or the Maoist revolution. The people in charge of the American Revolution were mostly well off. The US hasn't even had a period of high taxes intended to impoverish the rich, as the UK did after WWII. Occupy Wall Street, the Reparations movement, and its predecessors, such as the National Welfare Rights Organization, went nowhere. Organized labor is barely alive in the private sector. Don't expect much from that direction. There's the possibility that the coalition the incoming president created might go beyond what he intended and become a radical populist movement. That's happened in other countries when some rabble-rouser got the population wound up, then lost control of them. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42335797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42335797

mmooss 2y ago
> There's never been anything like the French Revolution, or the Russian Revolution, or the Maoist revolution. US culture has long actively reviled and denied power to aristocracy. The story that the rich are in physical danger is used by Trump's supporters to create a paranoid victim mentality among the wealthiest and most powerful. (America - anyone can be a victim!)
keiferski 2y ago
Unlikely. Here’s what will happen instead: Corporations will beef up security and keep doing what they were doing before. Police and government will increase surveillance budgets, citing this event as reasoning. And no one will interpret this act of violence as anything other than a random event to prevent. You don’t get structural change by extreme singular events. That’s not how it works.
- DoingIsLearning 2y ago
  > You don’t get structural change by extreme singular events. The word _singular_ is doing a lot of work there. Historically 'propagande par le fait' has had a massive effect on policy. The implication that you have to not only focus on EBITDA but also on social responsibility (in a real non-PR way) is ever lasting if this propagates to more than a single occurrence. Which is why mainstream media and authorities are so worried about controlling the narrative of the events (depicting Brian as a loving father etc.)
  - keiferski 2y ago
    Historically 'propagande par le fait' has had a massive effect on policy. What examples are you thinking of, exactly? When, precisely, did a person/group assassinate someone and have that act push forward their cause? Which is why mainstream media and authorities are so worried about controlling the narrative of the events (depicting Brian as a loving father etc.) Or, maybe the idea that killing a random healthcare CEO and acting like that will solve the healthcare disaster is a childish idea that belongs in a movie like The Purge or a Marvel film? The world isn't that simple. It's incredible that people have such a one-dimensional moral worldview.
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      Being charitable, it's not that it will *solve* the disaster, but that its justice applied. Does locking up a single drug dealer solve the war on drugs, or jailing a murderer solve anything for the victim of the murder?
      - keiferski 2y ago
        No serious definition of justice includes shooting people in the street because they committed a supposed crime. This is literally the basis of civilization.
        spencerflem 2y ago
        It is illegal, for obvious reasons, but justice is a moral question. We have trials to apply justice because it's not always clear who did what and it would be terribly unjust to lock someone up for something they didn't do.
        keiferski 2y ago
        And precisely what wise, intelligent definition of "moral justice" includes shooting people on the street? The answer is: none. This wasn't some elaborate ethical act, nor is the pathetic justification of it online. It is boring old mob mentality, combined with class resentment and a number of other things.
- gorfian_robot 2y ago
  Archduke Ferdinand has entered the chat ...
s_dev 2y ago
>The US hasn't even had a period of high taxes intended to impoverish the rich, as the UK did after WWII. Effective US Corporation tax was as high as 50% post WWII. Effective income taxes were between 70% and 90%.
- Animats 2y ago
  UK: "One for you nineteen for me."[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxman

mmooss 2y ago

> There's never been anything like the French Revolution, or the Russian Revolution, or the Maoist revolution. US culture has long actively reviled and denied power to aristocracy. The story that the rich are in physical danger is used by Trump's supporters to create a paranoid victim mentality among the wealthiest and most powerful. (America - anyone can be a victim!)

keiferski 2y ago

Unlikely. Here’s what will happen instead: Corporations will beef up security and keep doing what they were doing before. Police and government will increase surveillance budgets, citing this event as reasoning. And no one will interpret this act of violence as anything other than a random event to prevent. You don’t get structural change by extreme singular events. That’s not how it works.

DoingIsLearning 2y ago
> You don’t get structural change by extreme singular events. The word _singular_ is doing a lot of work there. Historically 'propagande par le fait' has had a massive effect on policy. The implication that you have to not only focus on EBITDA but also on social responsibility (in a real non-PR way) is ever lasting if this propagates to more than a single occurrence. Which is why mainstream media and authorities are so worried about controlling the narrative of the events (depicting Brian as a loving father etc.)
- keiferski 2y ago
  Historically 'propagande par le fait' has had a massive effect on policy. What examples are you thinking of, exactly? When, precisely, did a person/group assassinate someone and have that act push forward their cause? Which is why mainstream media and authorities are so worried about controlling the narrative of the events (depicting Brian as a loving father etc.) Or, maybe the idea that killing a random healthcare CEO and acting like that will solve the healthcare disaster is a childish idea that belongs in a movie like The Purge or a Marvel film? The world isn't that simple. It's incredible that people have such a one-dimensional moral worldview.
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    Being charitable, it's not that it will *solve* the disaster, but that its justice applied. Does locking up a single drug dealer solve the war on drugs, or jailing a murderer solve anything for the victim of the murder?
    - keiferski 2y ago
      No serious definition of justice includes shooting people in the street because they committed a supposed crime. This is literally the basis of civilization.
      - spencerflem 2y ago
        It is illegal, for obvious reasons, but justice is a moral question. We have trials to apply justice because it's not always clear who did what and it would be terribly unjust to lock someone up for something they didn't do.
        keiferski 2y ago
        And precisely what wise, intelligent definition of "moral justice" includes shooting people on the street? The answer is: none. This wasn't some elaborate ethical act, nor is the pathetic justification of it online. It is boring old mob mentality, combined with class resentment and a number of other things.
gorfian_robot 2y ago
Archduke Ferdinand has entered the chat ...

s_dev 2y ago

>The US hasn't even had a period of high taxes intended to impoverish the rich, as the UK did after WWII. Effective US Corporation tax was as high as 50% post WWII. Effective income taxes were between 70% and 90%.

Animats 2y ago
UK: "One for you nineteen for me."[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxman