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One of the most glaringly broken things about society is that abuse of power is not punished harshly enough. We need Finnish speeding ticket style systems acros

One of the most glaringly broken things about society is that abuse of power is not punished harshly enough. We need Finnish speeding ticket style systems across the board.

colechristensen 2y ago
[flagged]
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jsheard 2y ago
    > We can achieve policy goals the old fashioned way. We choose not to. You want insurance reform? Vote in someone that will do it. Vote for who? There are two viable parties and neither supports insurance reform.
    - rootusrootus 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - vjutfeubfc 2y ago
      I'd just like to point out, in case GP sees it, that no one here is advocating murder and that their comment wasn't flagged by advocates of murder. It was an inflammatory comment that broke the guidelines, so it got flagged. I didn't personally flag it, but I would've for that reason. That's all there is to it. If you don't feel like your relationship with HN is healthy or helpful for you, that's perfectly understandable, I have had to take many breaks from HN. But no, this community is not, by and large, pro murder. Occasionally there will be an unhinged troll literally calling for murder, but it's rare and I suspect most of it comes from a single individual (based on a hunch about writing style).
- tdb7893 2y ago
  As an American the most surprising thing about the reaction to the CEO being killed is supposedly the system is bad enough where killing people is okay but I don't know many people who vote in primary elections or care about local elections (which are where many people have the most influence on the system) and I also know some people who didn't even vote in the general election. To be clear: This isn't me saying we shouldn't kill CEOs, this is me saying I think more people should vote in primaries and also try to make change on a local level
  - okasaki 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - colechristensen 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - roenxi 2y ago
    > This isn't me saying we shouldn't kill CEOs... You probably should be saying that. As you point out, people haven't really exhausted the reasonable recourses so there is no reason to resort to unreasonable ones. Gunning people down on the street to exercise political pressure is barbaric and intolerable.
    - tdb7893 2y ago
      I'm not saying we should either, it's more that discussing it on the internet feels like a waste of my time and the morality of it isn't my point
  - jwagenet 2y ago
    I think the political pipeline is too slow for local activism to meaningfully impact state and national politics. People want to see change now, or at least progress in a 1-2 year timeframe.
- lolinder 2y ago
  > overwhelmingly — positive — reaction Be careful extrapolating from what you see on social media or—even worse—from news outlets' coverage of social media content. Social media is not representative of the real world, and the news media isn't incentivized to accurately describe the reactions on social media, so taking news stories about social media reactions is seeing the world through two bad filters, both of which will tend to exaggerate extremes.
  - willis936 2y ago
    Not two bad filters, just one. The mainstream media is not acknowledging what is going on in social media. One is a vox that can be target of suggestion, the other is outright instruction. So mainstream media will never be a good indicator of what people think and social media sometimes can be. It's important to ask: "who would feel the assassination is bad? Why would they feel that way? Who would share those principles?" I think the answers at the end point towards the assassination being a popular act. That should be raising hairs.
  - okasaki 2y ago
    My manager made a joke about it, and then later I had a discussion with another coworker who the worst CEO in the UK is.
  - wumeow 2y ago
    Case in point: the alleged killer was caught because someone recognized him in a McDonalds and called the cops.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      There is a $10k reward by the police for leads, so it could have also been that.
    - FactKnower69 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - jojobas 2y ago
belfalas 2y ago
> One of the most glaringly broken things about society is that abuse of power is not punished harshly enough. Maybe it's just me getting older but it seems like this has always been true across cultures and history. People like to believe that once they get power, they will act differently than the ones who came before. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, they end up being just like the people they replaced, if not worse. Every once in a while you get an exception but that's why we remember those people - because they were the exception.
- Spivak 2y ago
  It's why I think the lottocracy people might have a point. Rocketing people from zero to power keeps you from experiencing the traumas associated with attaining or being given success and keeps your ego to a minimum because you know you literally did nothing to deserve it.
  - belfalas 2y ago
    First time I had heard of lottocracy - interesting concept but I don't think I would like to be alive for it.
  - kiba 2y ago
    Jury duty. You get selected randomly for jury. Why not get randomly selected for urban planning and other duties?
    - astrange 2y ago
      We actually have that, called "civil grand juries", but they don't do very much. It'd work a lot better than the current urban planning system, which is hearings where only retirees with a lot of free time who are opposed to the project shows up.
      - kiba 2y ago
        Yes, I was talking about jury duty and sortition.
Titan2189 2y ago
Finnish speeding ticket fine calculator https://poliisi.fi/en/fine-counter https://poliisi.fi/en/fine-counter
KerrAvon 2y ago
there's a reason the Claims Adjuster is a folk hero
notthemessiah 2y ago
> According to the cybernetician, the purpose of a system is what it does. This is a basic dictum. It stands for bald fact, which makes a better starting point in seeking understanding than the familiar attributions of good intention, prejudices about expectations, moral judgment, or sheer ignorance of circumstances. - Stafford Beer If a system prioritizes copyright claims from the largest firms as casus belli against independent creators, and there are no attempts to reform such system and no recourse for independent creators, than we can only conclude such criminal negligence as intention, formalized within the priorities encoded within such a system. I just saw this a few days ago with Youtube channel Esoterica, which had a 10-second public domain recording of Chopin which was falsely flagged as copyright infringement. Dr. James Justin Sledge of Esoterica, despite having fair use of the clip, ended up commissioning an artist with an original recording (complete with unique changes to the public domain work) to avoid any confusion, but still got a takedown from UMG's copyright AI. As with any law, if public domain fair use isn't enforced, and to contest it is prohibitively expensive (as legal battles are often wars of attrition), then the public domain is useless, and major firms such as UMG can just function as feudal lords demanding the proceeds of any tenant peasant's work. As economist Yanis Varoufakis says, capitalism has been subsumed by techno-feudalism. https://www.youtube.com/@TheEsotericaChannel https://www.youtube.com/@TheEsotericaChannel
dghlsakjg 2y ago
I suspect that BrandShield is about to discover how much a lost day of sales costs Itch.io, plus some punitive damages thrown in. then they are about to discover that IP properties don't want to be associated with companies that get them involved in public lawsuits on the wrong side of their fandoms.
rvba 2y ago
Since corporations are people (but this kind of people who cannot go to prison), those tickets are definitely a good direction. Although I still think people inside the corporations should go to prison too, starting from CEOs.

One of the most glaringly broken things about society is that abuse of power is not punished harshly enough. We need Finnish speeding ticket style systems across the board.

colechristensen 2y ago

[flagged]

rootusrootus 2y ago
[flagged]
- jsheard 2y ago
  > We can achieve policy goals the old fashioned way. We choose not to. You want insurance reform? Vote in someone that will do it. Vote for who? There are two viable parties and neither supports insurance reform.
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - vjutfeubfc 2y ago
    I'd just like to point out, in case GP sees it, that no one here is advocating murder and that their comment wasn't flagged by advocates of murder. It was an inflammatory comment that broke the guidelines, so it got flagged. I didn't personally flag it, but I would've for that reason. That's all there is to it. If you don't feel like your relationship with HN is healthy or helpful for you, that's perfectly understandable, I have had to take many breaks from HN. But no, this community is not, by and large, pro murder. Occasionally there will be an unhinged troll literally calling for murder, but it's rare and I suspect most of it comes from a single individual (based on a hunch about writing style).
tdb7893 2y ago
As an American the most surprising thing about the reaction to the CEO being killed is supposedly the system is bad enough where killing people is okay but I don't know many people who vote in primary elections or care about local elections (which are where many people have the most influence on the system) and I also know some people who didn't even vote in the general election. To be clear: This isn't me saying we shouldn't kill CEOs, this is me saying I think more people should vote in primaries and also try to make change on a local level
- okasaki 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - colechristensen 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- roenxi 2y ago
  > This isn't me saying we shouldn't kill CEOs... You probably should be saying that. As you point out, people haven't really exhausted the reasonable recourses so there is no reason to resort to unreasonable ones. Gunning people down on the street to exercise political pressure is barbaric and intolerable.
  - tdb7893 2y ago
    I'm not saying we should either, it's more that discussing it on the internet feels like a waste of my time and the morality of it isn't my point
- jwagenet 2y ago
  I think the political pipeline is too slow for local activism to meaningfully impact state and national politics. People want to see change now, or at least progress in a 1-2 year timeframe.
lolinder 2y ago
> overwhelmingly — positive — reaction Be careful extrapolating from what you see on social media or—even worse—from news outlets' coverage of social media content. Social media is not representative of the real world, and the news media isn't incentivized to accurately describe the reactions on social media, so taking news stories about social media reactions is seeing the world through two bad filters, both of which will tend to exaggerate extremes.
- willis936 2y ago
  Not two bad filters, just one. The mainstream media is not acknowledging what is going on in social media. One is a vox that can be target of suggestion, the other is outright instruction. So mainstream media will never be a good indicator of what people think and social media sometimes can be. It's important to ask: "who would feel the assassination is bad? Why would they feel that way? Who would share those principles?" I think the answers at the end point towards the assassination being a popular act. That should be raising hairs.
- okasaki 2y ago
  My manager made a joke about it, and then later I had a discussion with another coworker who the worst CEO in the UK is.
- wumeow 2y ago
  Case in point: the alleged killer was caught because someone recognized him in a McDonalds and called the cops.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    There is a $10k reward by the police for leads, so it could have also been that.
  - FactKnower69 2y ago
    [flagged]
- jojobas 2y ago

belfalas 2y ago

> One of the most glaringly broken things about society is that abuse of power is not punished harshly enough. Maybe it's just me getting older but it seems like this has always been true across cultures and history. People like to believe that once they get power, they will act differently than the ones who came before. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, they end up being just like the people they replaced, if not worse. Every once in a while you get an exception but that's why we remember those people - because they were the exception.

Spivak 2y ago
It's why I think the lottocracy people might have a point. Rocketing people from zero to power keeps you from experiencing the traumas associated with attaining or being given success and keeps your ego to a minimum because you know you literally did nothing to deserve it.
- belfalas 2y ago
  First time I had heard of lottocracy - interesting concept but I don't think I would like to be alive for it.
- kiba 2y ago
  Jury duty. You get selected randomly for jury. Why not get randomly selected for urban planning and other duties?
  - astrange 2y ago
    We actually have that, called "civil grand juries", but they don't do very much. It'd work a lot better than the current urban planning system, which is hearings where only retirees with a lot of free time who are opposed to the project shows up.
    - kiba 2y ago
      Yes, I was talking about jury duty and sortition.

Titan2189 2y ago

Finnish speeding ticket fine calculator https://poliisi.fi/en/fine-counter https://poliisi.fi/en/fine-counter

KerrAvon 2y ago

there's a reason the Claims Adjuster is a folk hero

notthemessiah 2y ago

> According to the cybernetician, the purpose of a system is what it does. This is a basic dictum. It stands for bald fact, which makes a better starting point in seeking understanding than the familiar attributions of good intention, prejudices about expectations, moral judgment, or sheer ignorance of circumstances. - Stafford Beer If a system prioritizes copyright claims from the largest firms as casus belli against independent creators, and there are no attempts to reform such system and no recourse for independent creators, than we can only conclude such criminal negligence as intention, formalized within the priorities encoded within such a system. I just saw this a few days ago with Youtube channel Esoterica, which had a 10-second public domain recording of Chopin which was falsely flagged as copyright infringement. Dr. James Justin Sledge of Esoterica, despite having fair use of the clip, ended up commissioning an artist with an original recording (complete with unique changes to the public domain work) to avoid any confusion, but still got a takedown from UMG's copyright AI. As with any law, if public domain fair use isn't enforced, and to contest it is prohibitively expensive (as legal battles are often wars of attrition), then the public domain is useless, and major firms such as UMG can just function as feudal lords demanding the proceeds of any tenant peasant's work. As economist Yanis Varoufakis says, capitalism has been subsumed by techno-feudalism. https://www.youtube.com/@TheEsotericaChannel https://www.youtube.com/@TheEsotericaChannel

dghlsakjg 2y ago

I suspect that BrandShield is about to discover how much a lost day of sales costs Itch.io, plus some punitive damages thrown in. then they are about to discover that IP properties don't want to be associated with companies that get them involved in public lawsuits on the wrong side of their fandoms.

rvba 2y ago

Since corporations are people (but this kind of people who cannot go to prison), those tickets are definitely a good direction. Although I still think people inside the corporations should go to prison too, starting from CEOs.