3 ms·

>I'm guessing it has to be a case of code inspectors not particularly caring or knowing about the DC side? I'm inclined to agree with this. US electrical code,

>I'm guessing it has to be a case of code inspectors not particularly caring or knowing about the DC side? I'm inclined to agree with this. US electrical code, especially in recent years, is pretty robust and has gotten to the point where people groan about excessive safety features(tamper resistant outlets required in all new dwelling spaces, arc fault circuit breakers, whole home surge protection all make wiring a house significantly more expensive than 15 years ago). Inspectors are pretty good at catching grounding and other issues. That said we don't yet have generational knowledge of PV and battery systems. A lot of installers are still learning by doing, it feels. Are you sure it wasn't just DIY un-permitted work, though?

ssl-3 2y ago
It is always important to remember that the National Electric Code isn't national. It is up to the states or other (more-local) AHJs to adopt it (or not). And many simply have not done so. For example: A person building a single-family home in Meigs County, Ohio, has no electrical code to follow, nor any electrical permits to pull, nor any government inspections of any electrical work. (Lacking code, there's no standard by which to permit nor to inspect the work.)
mschuster91 2y ago
> excessive safety features Well your average electrical wiring will live on for 50 years or more. The German electricity subreddit routinely has horror shows dating from shortly after WW2, sometimes even from before that, that are still in service. That means whatever you "save" money on now will haunt you and reduce your home's safety needlessly for decades. As for tamper resistant outlets and surge protection, these things aren't that much more expensive - (Schneider Electric ones are 1€ more expensive in the tamper-resistant variant, but admittedly that's Germany and not the US), and surge protection adds about 700€ in material costs for a three-tier protection. The only thing in your list that is really expensive are the AFDDs, daaaamn they are expensive, but so worth the money.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  It's not about the money. It's about the hassle of having stuff that represents a usefulness and longevity downgrade over what it replaced.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    What about these is a downgrade?! Surge protection remains useful until it triggers due to a surge, and a non-protected home in contrast would just have a lot of the devices inside it fried. AFDDs may not live as long as a "normal" RCD but replacing them isn't that big of a deal compared to the fire risk it prevents - about 1/3 of all residential fires are due to faulty electrical stuff. The only thing I can see as annoying are protected outlets, but hey... a slight annoyance compared to a child getting an electric shock, a small price to pay.
    - potato3732842 2y ago
      Brushed motors routinely trip arc fault breakers, it'a a fundamental problem with them that can't be fixed because brushes will always arc a bit. Normal breakers DGAF. Arc fault and GFI breakers have a way higher DOA and crib death rate than conventional breakers. The other comment addressed the tamper resistant outlets but additionally the outlets themselves don't last as long because they get used more roughly than non-tamper resistant ones.
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        > Brushed motors routinely trip arc fault breakers, it'a a fundamental problem with them that can't be fixed because brushes will always arc a bit What kind of device do normal households use that's still using brushed motors directly attached to mains?! It used to be power drills and vacuums, but it's been ages since I last saw one. Maybe power tools for shops and farms, okay, but in that case just leave that one circuit secured with a plain RCD breaker and keep the rest with AFDDs. > Arc fault and GFI breakers have a way higher DOA and crib death rate than conventional breakers. RCDs of ye olde days aka 70s, yes, they tend to get more sensitive as they age for some reason, but modern RCDs are rare to see DOA.

ssl-3 2y ago

It is always important to remember that the National Electric Code isn't national. It is up to the states or other (more-local) AHJs to adopt it (or not). And many simply have not done so. For example: A person building a single-family home in Meigs County, Ohio, has no electrical code to follow, nor any electrical permits to pull, nor any government inspections of any electrical work. (Lacking code, there's no standard by which to permit nor to inspect the work.)

mschuster91 2y ago

> excessive safety features Well your average electrical wiring will live on for 50 years or more. The German electricity subreddit routinely has horror shows dating from shortly after WW2, sometimes even from before that, that are still in service. That means whatever you "save" money on now will haunt you and reduce your home's safety needlessly for decades. As for tamper resistant outlets and surge protection, these things aren't that much more expensive - (Schneider Electric ones are 1€ more expensive in the tamper-resistant variant, but admittedly that's Germany and not the US), and surge protection adds about 700€ in material costs for a three-tier protection. The only thing in your list that is really expensive are the AFDDs, daaaamn they are expensive, but so worth the money.

potato3732842 2y ago
It's not about the money. It's about the hassle of having stuff that represents a usefulness and longevity downgrade over what it replaced.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  What about these is a downgrade?! Surge protection remains useful until it triggers due to a surge, and a non-protected home in contrast would just have a lot of the devices inside it fried. AFDDs may not live as long as a "normal" RCD but replacing them isn't that big of a deal compared to the fire risk it prevents - about 1/3 of all residential fires are due to faulty electrical stuff. The only thing I can see as annoying are protected outlets, but hey... a slight annoyance compared to a child getting an electric shock, a small price to pay.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    Brushed motors routinely trip arc fault breakers, it'a a fundamental problem with them that can't be fixed because brushes will always arc a bit. Normal breakers DGAF. Arc fault and GFI breakers have a way higher DOA and crib death rate than conventional breakers. The other comment addressed the tamper resistant outlets but additionally the outlets themselves don't last as long because they get used more roughly than non-tamper resistant ones.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > Brushed motors routinely trip arc fault breakers, it'a a fundamental problem with them that can't be fixed because brushes will always arc a bit What kind of device do normal households use that's still using brushed motors directly attached to mains?! It used to be power drills and vacuums, but it's been ages since I last saw one. Maybe power tools for shops and farms, okay, but in that case just leave that one circuit secured with a plain RCD breaker and keep the rest with AFDDs. > Arc fault and GFI breakers have a way higher DOA and crib death rate than conventional breakers. RCDs of ye olde days aka 70s, yes, they tend to get more sensitive as they age for some reason, but modern RCDs are rare to see DOA.