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For those who may not be aware of what you are talking about: 3 fund companies (BlackRock, State Street, Vanguard) are the largest shareholder in over 80% of S

For those who may not be aware of what you are talking about: 3 fund companies (BlackRock, State Street, Vanguard) are the largest shareholder in over 80% of SP500 companies and collectively own around 28% of the SP500 market cap.

Cumpiler69 2y ago
Doesn't that level of influence over large parts of the economy make those enterprises a bit dangerous? Also, how did Blackrock get so wealthy so fast? They've only been around since 1988.
- sofixa 2y ago
  Yes. If they collectively decide stock price matters more than anything else (sustainability, the planet, long term viability of the business), they get it, whatever the short or long term costs. There was a comparison between Amundi (France based) and BlackRock, and their voting patterns, and BlackRock was consistently voting against any ESG or in any way ecology related proposals. Anything that isn't directly about making more money is just not their thing. Contrast that with Amundi who overwhelmingly voted for ESG or similar measures.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    >If they collectively decide stock price matters more than anything else So an oligopoly that presents the illusion of free market?
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      A market has buyers and sellers. Corporate decisions are driven by politcs where market terms don't apply.
    - hnfong 2y ago
      Matt Levine has recently written a humorous-yet-thorough article on this exact issue: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-12-02/texas-asks-if-index-funds-are-illegal https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-12-02/texas-...
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Electronic trading and passive investing drove commissions to zero so Blackrock helped create ESG because ESG requires paying commission for the service of certifying an investment as ESG.
- derf_ 2y ago
  > Also, how did Blackrock get so wealthy so fast? They've only been around since 1988. It is not their money. They have roughly $11.5 trillion of assets under management, but their market cap is only $161.5b (on net income of about $6b). Compare that to xAI, which has existed for less than two years and has a valuation around $50b.
  - bb88 2y ago
    It is money that Blackrock does control (hence under management). So when they move money, the market does feel it. xAI has yet to actually move the market needle, other than getting venture capitalists to sign away money they would have done otherwise.
- corford 2y ago
  Passive flows vis ETFs have hugely distorted the S&P. Mike Green has been sounding the alarm about this for quite some time (https://x.com/profplum99 https://x.com/profplum99, https://www.yesigiveafig.com/ https://www.yesigiveafig.com/).
  - trogdor 2y ago
    I am interested in learning about what you are referring to, but you linked his entire Substack and Twitter account. Would you please link a specific post?
    - corford 2y ago
      This recent interview covers some of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUSv2gdqX-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUSv2gdqX-Q (from ~40 mins in). Also these podcasts for more depth: https://www.investmentmagazine.com.au/2021/07/passive-flows-a-self-perpetuating-market-and-unpleasant-simulations-mike-green/ https://www.investmentmagazine.com.au/2021/07/passive-flows-... & https://advisoranalyst.com/2021/11/24/26-michael-green-the-inelastic-market-hypothesis-explains-the-markets-volatility.html/ https://advisoranalyst.com/2021/11/24/26-michael-green-the-i... & https://omny.fm/shows/masters-in-business/mike-greene-on-why-passive-investing-is-hurting-ma https://omny.fm/shows/masters-in-business/mike-greene-on-why...
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  They own the country bro. They are (part of) the country. We are the tenants.

Cumpiler69 2y ago

Doesn't that level of influence over large parts of the economy make those enterprises a bit dangerous? Also, how did Blackrock get so wealthy so fast? They've only been around since 1988.

sofixa 2y ago
Yes. If they collectively decide stock price matters more than anything else (sustainability, the planet, long term viability of the business), they get it, whatever the short or long term costs. There was a comparison between Amundi (France based) and BlackRock, and their voting patterns, and BlackRock was consistently voting against any ESG or in any way ecology related proposals. Anything that isn't directly about making more money is just not their thing. Contrast that with Amundi who overwhelmingly voted for ESG or similar measures.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  >If they collectively decide stock price matters more than anything else So an oligopoly that presents the illusion of free market?
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    A market has buyers and sellers. Corporate decisions are driven by politcs where market terms don't apply.
  - hnfong 2y ago
    Matt Levine has recently written a humorous-yet-thorough article on this exact issue: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-12-02/texas-asks-if-index-funds-are-illegal https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-12-02/texas-...
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Electronic trading and passive investing drove commissions to zero so Blackrock helped create ESG because ESG requires paying commission for the service of certifying an investment as ESG.
derf_ 2y ago
> Also, how did Blackrock get so wealthy so fast? They've only been around since 1988. It is not their money. They have roughly $11.5 trillion of assets under management, but their market cap is only $161.5b (on net income of about $6b). Compare that to xAI, which has existed for less than two years and has a valuation around $50b.
- bb88 2y ago
  It is money that Blackrock does control (hence under management). So when they move money, the market does feel it. xAI has yet to actually move the market needle, other than getting venture capitalists to sign away money they would have done otherwise.
corford 2y ago
Passive flows vis ETFs have hugely distorted the S&P. Mike Green has been sounding the alarm about this for quite some time (https://x.com/profplum99 https://x.com/profplum99, https://www.yesigiveafig.com/ https://www.yesigiveafig.com/).
- trogdor 2y ago
  I am interested in learning about what you are referring to, but you linked his entire Substack and Twitter account. Would you please link a specific post?
  - corford 2y ago
    This recent interview covers some of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUSv2gdqX-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUSv2gdqX-Q (from ~40 mins in). Also these podcasts for more depth: https://www.investmentmagazine.com.au/2021/07/passive-flows-a-self-perpetuating-market-and-unpleasant-simulations-mike-green/ https://www.investmentmagazine.com.au/2021/07/passive-flows-... & https://advisoranalyst.com/2021/11/24/26-michael-green-the-inelastic-market-hypothesis-explains-the-markets-volatility.html/ https://advisoranalyst.com/2021/11/24/26-michael-green-the-i... & https://omny.fm/shows/masters-in-business/mike-greene-on-why-passive-investing-is-hurting-ma https://omny.fm/shows/masters-in-business/mike-greene-on-why...
markus_zhang 2y ago
They own the country bro. They are (part of) the country. We are the tenants.