6 ms·

I think this is all related to the iOS X direction Apple is going with their desktops. they would rather force a broken implementation of full-screen which mimi

by da_n 14y ago

I think this is all related to the iOS X direction Apple is going with their desktops. they would rather force a broken implementation of full-screen which mimics iOS than rethink it for a desktop. And you know, I hate to say it (as a long time user of Apple computers) but in general they really need to pull their heads out of their arses when it comes to the bizarre direction they're going with the OS X user experience. Imaginary linen canvas everywhere? Horrible slow transitions everywhere, all the time? Or maybe I just want to get some god damn work done here. Apple, we know you can do this stuff ever since the days the genie minimize effect was introduced (or shift-minimize for ultra slow!). Please, get some sanity and just put an advanced panel somewhere in the system preferences with, among other things (tabs in Finder?) an animation = slow/normal/fast/disabled option. We should not need to resort to plist hacks.

k-mcgrady 14y ago
I hope that they make OS 11 (or whatever the next major major version of the OS will be) more power user focussed. With the iPad becoming more of a replacement PC for normal users it makes sense they could focus the desktop OS on pro/power users in a couple of years time.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- da_n 14y ago
  I can see such a scenario playing out, I think iOS is by a gaping chasm the proven consumer OS for Apple. I just hope during iOS's continued penetration into the consumer space that they don't mess-up OS X for the actual pro people who want to have nice UNIX based OS with an accessible filesystem etc. Hopefully they will at least give the user more control and options so they can tweak it to their needs/tastes. I am sceptical though. My favourite release of OS X for performance was Tiger, it was rock-solid in my experience and felt lightweight.
  - pyre 14y ago
    > UNIX based OS with an accessible filesystem That's the first time that I've heard of someone praising OS X for its 'accessible filesystem.' Care to expand?
    - recoiledsnake 14y ago
      It was not praise for OS X, but reflecting on the fact that there is no user accessible filesystem on iOS. http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/06/steve-jobs-why-is-the-file-system-the-face-of-the-os/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/06/steve-jobs-why-is-the...
    - rb12345 14y ago
      I would assume that this is comparing OS X to iOS, where (as I understand it) applications are restricted to their own file system areas.
    - da_n 14y ago
      As mentioned above, I did indeed mean accessible in the sense you can actually see the filesystem, create directories etc. If I am comparing to FreeBSD then not really going to argue about it being open to the user (though I think it is probably a very good thing that they hide all the UNIX system files from the average user, most people I know with a computer think the filesystem is called 'Desktop').
  - deveac 14y ago
    >I can see such a scenario playing out, I think iOS is by a gaping chasm the proven consumer OS for Apple. That's assuming the contest is a mutually exclusive OSX vs iOS game and not OSX vs Windows. If you assume the latter, OSX is also a proven consumer OS for Apple along with iOS. >Hopefully they will at least give the user more control and options so they can tweak it to their needs/tastes. I am sceptical though. I think you are right to be skeptical. I think Apple considers both OSes their 'golden child', especially with the absolutely massive gains OSX is making in the PC segment, and they are fully embracing the general consumer computing market. Everything they are doing signals a move to simplicity and familiarity with OSX being the system that is 'reigned in and streamlined' in the process. If grey linen and genie animations bum you out, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better, and also, it's not really going to get better. I personally don't mind OSX taking design elements from iOS, hiding powerful features in the name of simplicity (as long as they are still there), animations, linen, etc. As long as the features are still there and the OS is fast, I'm good. Unfortunately, the OS isn't fast. SL-->Lion introduced a sluggishness that is very real and very annoying, though I would probably never notice it if I hadn't upgraded from a much snappier SL.
jsz0 14y ago
What new transitional UI effects did Mountain Lion add? I haven't noticed any differences.
- chrisrogers 14y ago
  switching between desktops is slower. It eases as a much slower rate at beginning and end. I've also noticed that you cannot cancel a desktop switch until the previous is complete, and thus cannot cancel a desktop move.
  - DigitalJack 14y ago
    Wow... I haven't tried Mountain Lion yet, maybe I should before the retail release. Are the desktop transitions really so slow that you would want to "cancel" one before it finished?
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    Wait. Slower than Lion? Lion is already considerably slower than Snow Leopard. It can't possibly be any slower. I really, really hope you're confused. I'm already using some sub-par-experience tool to override Spaces/MissionControl to speed up the four finger swipes.
  - taligent 14y ago
    Really ? I haven't noticed any difference switching desktops.
lloeki 14y ago
> I think this is all related to the iOS X direction Apple is going with their desktops. they would rather force a broken implementation of full-screen Indeed the current implementation is severely lacking. It's jarring when you plug a MacBook to a TV, pop in a DVD video, which starts the official DVD Player, and put it in full screen. Possible scenarios include: - you are in mirror mode: this means the TV and the internal display will be at their common denominator, suboptimal in both resolution and aspect ratio. - you are not in mirror mode: the primary display is irrevocably the built-in one. DVD Player goes fullscreen on that 13", while you can enjoy 42" of glorious Lion linen. Of course you don't want to close the screen, unless you have both fed the laptop with AC and have an external peripheral at hand to control Apple Remote, an external keyboard or a Magic Trackpad, which is a ludicrous situation. The current solution is of course to use VLC, which goes around Lion's fullscreen API. Yet I see a solution ahead. In Lion an app "going fullscreen" really means "the app gets its own space" (I thus prefer the term "fullspace" instead). What's more, since Spaces have been introduced, a multihead setup lies in a single, giant Space all across. It follows that since the two screens are one unique Space, an app going fullspace will (under the current implementation) take over the two screens. That's the problem, and so there's the solution: in a dual-head setup, the two screens should be two independent spaces, not one across. This solves a good deal of issues: - fullspace immediately occupies only one screen, with the other ones available to desktops or other fullspace apps - windows can be moved from one monitor to an other monitor from Mission Control. This is not possible currently: you have to exit Mission Control and drag the window to the other screen. - windows can be moved from one monitor to another space on another monitor from Mission Control. This is not possible currently: you have to exit MC, drag the window as the previous case, enter MC again and drag the window to the other space. - and why not, Spaces could be rearranged not only inside each monitor, but across monitors. Take Desktop2 on Screen1, drag it on Screen2 after Desktop3, take fullspaced QuickTime on Screen3, put in on Screen1. There are problems to be solved, like when resolutions differ, but that's really not the end of the world. MC literally begs for those four features. I don't know if Apple thought of it yet (probably) and if they want to go that way (who knows, really). For all I know it would mean a heavy deal of refactoring of the current Spaces implementation (e.g see how currently Desktop1 is never reorderable, how fishy...).
- 14y ago
redthrowaway 14y ago
>or shift-minimize for ultra slow! I never knew that existed. What possible purpose could that serve save to show off some gimmick?
- primatology 14y ago
  It exists for most directly-controllable animations. Show dashboard super slowly? Shift+12. Show desktop super slowly? Shift + F11. Show Mission Control super slowly? Shift + Mission Control Shortcut. :/
  - redthrowaway 14y ago
    Oddly enough, it doesn't work with F12 on Lion.
    - primatology 14y ago
      Oh, it works if you don't have "Show Dashboard as a space" checked.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  For debugging of course.
  - redthrowaway 14y ago
    #ifdef DEBUG...
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      #ifdef SURPRISING_AND_DELIGHTFUL_AND_HARMLESS_AND_ADDS_NO_COGNITIVE_LOAD_TO_THE_USERS_EXPERIENCE_WHATSOEVER
- danieldk 14y ago
  I always thought that this was a feature for the OS X developers to 'debug' their transitions. You can do fun stuff with it though, e.g.: - Open a terminal, enter "killall Dock", don't press return yet. - Surf to HackerNews in your favorite webbrowser ;). - Hold shift and minimize the window. - Very quickly switch to the terminal and press return. Now your browser is stuck somewhere halfway the transition. The nice thing is that you can still use your web browser in its deformed state. You can fix your web browser by (really) minimizing and then maximizing it.
crag 14y ago
"I hate to say it (as a long time user of Apple computers) but in general they really need to pull their heads out of their arses when it comes to the bizarre direction they're going with the OS X user experience." I don't think Apple cares, really. From their point of view, it's all about the consumer. If the consumer keeps buying their devices us power users ("developers") will continue to buy the hardware too. To write apps. And that's all Apple cares about. Look Apple has never had great developer relations. Never. But I gotta tell you, right now it's the worse I've ever seen. Look to sum up, most "regular" consumers are using one screen. Doesn't matter what us here use (and I'd call us power users). The masses uses one screen. And that's all Apple cares about. I doubt we'll ever see this issue resolved.
- gurkendoktor 14y ago
  > Doesn't matter what us here use (and I'd call us power users). I agree in a way, and I think we power users (as a whole) are a bit hypocritical. Whenever Apple leaves the most "backward" x% of users behind, it's just cutting stinky slack (no 32-bit, no iSync, no Rosetta...). When the tiny top x% of power users suffer, the iWorld is coming to an end and Apple is at fault. But there's actually something that we can do: public shaming. Apple has already taken some steps back in 10.8: Ungrouping of apps in MC, pseudo-three-column layout in Address Book, less visual clutter in Calendar and the calendar list panel made it back. If blogs duly ridicule Lion as the Vista of OS X and keep going even after the release of ML, I have hope that Apple will take note. After all, there must be some people inside of Apple who agree with "us" too. And even economically, Apple should be happy if we buy Cinema Displays or at least more of their overpriced adapters.
  - crag 14y ago
    "But there's actually something that we can do: public shaming." That's the key with Apple. Bad press is the ONLY time they respond. Anyone know Walt Mossberg?
- larrys 14y ago
  "If the consumer keeps buying their devices us power users ("developers") will continue to buy the hardware too. To write apps." Such an important point I thought I would highlight it. On HN there is often talk of "good will" with developers and the effect of that. The fact is good will doesn't trump market opportunity. Market opportunity is like good looks. It gets you the girl (even if you're a dick). Helping the girl with her physics homework gets you good will but won't get you laid.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
89a 14y ago
Fullscreen and Versions need to be killed or fixed.

by da_n 14y ago

k-mcgrady 14y ago

I hope that they make OS 11 (or whatever the next major major version of the OS will be) more power user focussed. With the iPad becoming more of a replacement PC for normal users it makes sense they could focus the desktop OS on pro/power users in a couple of years time.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
da_n 14y ago
I can see such a scenario playing out, I think iOS is by a gaping chasm the proven consumer OS for Apple. I just hope during iOS's continued penetration into the consumer space that they don't mess-up OS X for the actual pro people who want to have nice UNIX based OS with an accessible filesystem etc. Hopefully they will at least give the user more control and options so they can tweak it to their needs/tastes. I am sceptical though. My favourite release of OS X for performance was Tiger, it was rock-solid in my experience and felt lightweight.
- pyre 14y ago
  > UNIX based OS with an accessible filesystem That's the first time that I've heard of someone praising OS X for its 'accessible filesystem.' Care to expand?
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
    It was not praise for OS X, but reflecting on the fact that there is no user accessible filesystem on iOS. http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/06/steve-jobs-why-is-the-file-system-the-face-of-the-os/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/06/steve-jobs-why-is-the...
  - rb12345 14y ago
    I would assume that this is comparing OS X to iOS, where (as I understand it) applications are restricted to their own file system areas.
  - da_n 14y ago
    As mentioned above, I did indeed mean accessible in the sense you can actually see the filesystem, create directories etc. If I am comparing to FreeBSD then not really going to argue about it being open to the user (though I think it is probably a very good thing that they hide all the UNIX system files from the average user, most people I know with a computer think the filesystem is called 'Desktop').
- deveac 14y ago
  >I can see such a scenario playing out, I think iOS is by a gaping chasm the proven consumer OS for Apple. That's assuming the contest is a mutually exclusive OSX vs iOS game and not OSX vs Windows. If you assume the latter, OSX is also a proven consumer OS for Apple along with iOS. >Hopefully they will at least give the user more control and options so they can tweak it to their needs/tastes. I am sceptical though. I think you are right to be skeptical. I think Apple considers both OSes their 'golden child', especially with the absolutely massive gains OSX is making in the PC segment, and they are fully embracing the general consumer computing market. Everything they are doing signals a move to simplicity and familiarity with OSX being the system that is 'reigned in and streamlined' in the process. If grey linen and genie animations bum you out, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better, and also, it's not really going to get better. I personally don't mind OSX taking design elements from iOS, hiding powerful features in the name of simplicity (as long as they are still there), animations, linen, etc. As long as the features are still there and the OS is fast, I'm good. Unfortunately, the OS isn't fast. SL-->Lion introduced a sluggishness that is very real and very annoying, though I would probably never notice it if I hadn't upgraded from a much snappier SL.

jsz0 14y ago

What new transitional UI effects did Mountain Lion add? I haven't noticed any differences.

chrisrogers 14y ago
switching between desktops is slower. It eases as a much slower rate at beginning and end. I've also noticed that you cannot cancel a desktop switch until the previous is complete, and thus cannot cancel a desktop move.
- DigitalJack 14y ago
  Wow... I haven't tried Mountain Lion yet, maybe I should before the retail release. Are the desktop transitions really so slow that you would want to "cancel" one before it finished?
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  Wait. Slower than Lion? Lion is already considerably slower than Snow Leopard. It can't possibly be any slower. I really, really hope you're confused. I'm already using some sub-par-experience tool to override Spaces/MissionControl to speed up the four finger swipes.
- taligent 14y ago
  Really ? I haven't noticed any difference switching desktops.

lloeki 14y ago

> I think this is all related to the iOS X direction Apple is going with their desktops. they would rather force a broken implementation of full-screen Indeed the current implementation is severely lacking. It's jarring when you plug a MacBook to a TV, pop in a DVD video, which starts the official DVD Player, and put it in full screen. Possible scenarios include: - you are in mirror mode: this means the TV and the internal display will be at their common denominator, suboptimal in both resolution and aspect ratio. - you are not in mirror mode: the primary display is irrevocably the built-in one. DVD Player goes fullscreen on that 13", while you can enjoy 42" of glorious Lion linen. Of course you don't want to close the screen, unless you have both fed the laptop with AC and have an external peripheral at hand to control Apple Remote, an external keyboard or a Magic Trackpad, which is a ludicrous situation. The current solution is of course to use VLC, which goes around Lion's fullscreen API. Yet I see a solution ahead. In Lion an app "going fullscreen" really means "the app gets its own space" (I thus prefer the term "fullspace" instead). What's more, since Spaces have been introduced, a multihead setup lies in a single, giant Space all across. It follows that since the two screens are one unique Space, an app going fullspace will (under the current implementation) take over the two screens. That's the problem, and so there's the solution: in a dual-head setup, the two screens should be two independent spaces, not one across. This solves a good deal of issues: - fullspace immediately occupies only one screen, with the other ones available to desktops or other fullspace apps - windows can be moved from one monitor to an other monitor from Mission Control. This is not possible currently: you have to exit Mission Control and drag the window to the other screen. - windows can be moved from one monitor to another space on another monitor from Mission Control. This is not possible currently: you have to exit MC, drag the window as the previous case, enter MC again and drag the window to the other space. - and why not, Spaces could be rearranged not only inside each monitor, but across monitors. Take Desktop2 on Screen1, drag it on Screen2 after Desktop3, take fullspaced QuickTime on Screen3, put in on Screen1. There are problems to be solved, like when resolutions differ, but that's really not the end of the world. MC literally begs for those four features. I don't know if Apple thought of it yet (probably) and if they want to go that way (who knows, really). For all I know it would mean a heavy deal of refactoring of the current Spaces implementation (e.g see how currently Desktop1 is never reorderable, how fishy...).

14y ago

redthrowaway 14y ago

>or shift-minimize for ultra slow! I never knew that existed. What possible purpose could that serve save to show off some gimmick?

primatology 14y ago
It exists for most directly-controllable animations. Show dashboard super slowly? Shift+12. Show desktop super slowly? Shift + F11. Show Mission Control super slowly? Shift + Mission Control Shortcut. :/
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  Oddly enough, it doesn't work with F12 on Lion.
  - primatology 14y ago
    Oh, it works if you don't have "Show Dashboard as a space" checked.
jpxxx 14y ago
For debugging of course.
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  #ifdef DEBUG...
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    #ifdef SURPRISING_AND_DELIGHTFUL_AND_HARMLESS_AND_ADDS_NO_COGNITIVE_LOAD_TO_THE_USERS_EXPERIENCE_WHATSOEVER
danieldk 14y ago
I always thought that this was a feature for the OS X developers to 'debug' their transitions. You can do fun stuff with it though, e.g.: - Open a terminal, enter "killall Dock", don't press return yet. - Surf to HackerNews in your favorite webbrowser ;). - Hold shift and minimize the window. - Very quickly switch to the terminal and press return. Now your browser is stuck somewhere halfway the transition. The nice thing is that you can still use your web browser in its deformed state. You can fix your web browser by (really) minimizing and then maximizing it.

crag 14y ago

"I hate to say it (as a long time user of Apple computers) but in general they really need to pull their heads out of their arses when it comes to the bizarre direction they're going with the OS X user experience." I don't think Apple cares, really. From their point of view, it's all about the consumer. If the consumer keeps buying their devices us power users ("developers") will continue to buy the hardware too. To write apps. And that's all Apple cares about. Look Apple has never had great developer relations. Never. But I gotta tell you, right now it's the worse I've ever seen. Look to sum up, most "regular" consumers are using one screen. Doesn't matter what us here use (and I'd call us power users). The masses uses one screen. And that's all Apple cares about. I doubt we'll ever see this issue resolved.

gurkendoktor 14y ago
> Doesn't matter what us here use (and I'd call us power users). I agree in a way, and I think we power users (as a whole) are a bit hypocritical. Whenever Apple leaves the most "backward" x% of users behind, it's just cutting stinky slack (no 32-bit, no iSync, no Rosetta...). When the tiny top x% of power users suffer, the iWorld is coming to an end and Apple is at fault. But there's actually something that we can do: public shaming. Apple has already taken some steps back in 10.8: Ungrouping of apps in MC, pseudo-three-column layout in Address Book, less visual clutter in Calendar and the calendar list panel made it back. If blogs duly ridicule Lion as the Vista of OS X and keep going even after the release of ML, I have hope that Apple will take note. After all, there must be some people inside of Apple who agree with "us" too. And even economically, Apple should be happy if we buy Cinema Displays or at least more of their overpriced adapters.
- crag 14y ago
  "But there's actually something that we can do: public shaming." That's the key with Apple. Bad press is the ONLY time they respond. Anyone know Walt Mossberg?
larrys 14y ago
"If the consumer keeps buying their devices us power users ("developers") will continue to buy the hardware too. To write apps." Such an important point I thought I would highlight it. On HN there is often talk of "good will" with developers and the effect of that. The fact is good will doesn't trump market opportunity. Market opportunity is like good looks. It gets you the girl (even if you're a dick). Helping the girl with her physics homework gets you good will but won't get you laid.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

89a 14y ago

Fullscreen and Versions need to be killed or fixed.