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The whole thing is just insane. Instead of going up the supply chain and arresting the big fish, they are creating their own supply chain and go after addicts.

The whole thing is just insane. Instead of going up the supply chain and arresting the big fish, they are creating their own supply chain and go after addicts. Everybody involved in this should get fired. Almost as stupid as the FBI years ago going into mosques with undercover people radicalizing some young and then arresting them. Basically they are creating their own crimes which they then solve.

robjwells 2y ago
> Everybody involved in this should get fired. I don’t disagree but the events in question took place and were discovered over 30 years ago. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/04/Appeals-court-Sheriffs-cocaine-lab-illegal/1267694501200/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/04/Appeals-court-Sherif...
- boringg 2y ago
  Id agree -- it is crazy but this is 30 years ago.. For those still impacted thats a problem. Not the same level of shock though.
redwall_hp 2y ago
They should all receive the same sentence as someone they arrested for making and selling crack cocaine would.
- whoitwas 2y ago
  No shit. You should reconsider the context and implications.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cies 2y ago
  Indeed. Police usually get fired (w/ or w/o benefits). Or put on paid leave. I think police should be held to a higher standard than the public: their training and their power (monopoly on violence) warrants that. Something else: "provocation" is usually forbidden to law enforcement. I think law enforcement needs provocation in order to catch certain bad behaviors. But certainly not for a victimless crime like dealing dope. Where I think provocation is needed as a law enforcement tool: sexual harassment in the streets (like cat calling) and govt corruption.
- godelski 2y ago
  No. What they did is worse. They abused their power to do the crime and evade prosecution. That's a much worse crime. It's a double standard. It undermines the entire authority system. It doesn't just harm the people they are selling crack to, it undermines the entire police system. Even a "single isolated incident" of authority abuse undermines the entire authority system. Authorities aren't equal in the eyes of the law. They are held to a higher standard. Do I have to quote fucking Spiderman (Uncle Ben Parker)?: With great power comes great responsibility. They should be charged with manufacturing schedule I drugs, selling schedule I drugs, AND conspiracy to defraud the {federal government,state of Florida,people of Florida,police}, and a bunch of other crimes. I would go so far as to say that such acts are those of treason. They acted in a way to undermine the trust of the American people, to undermine the justice system, to undermine the government that they are representing. It is unquestionable that they have caused a betrayal of trust. I think this is a problem that we let slide due to apathy. But that's why I'm so pissed about this kind of stuff. It's because treason can build slowly, and even be explained away with "best intentions." But it is this slow slide that sows distrust to the institutions we have. It gives legitimate reason to be distrustful of these systems. And without going after bad actors or without holding them to a higher standard, this too undermines the entire system. I don't think you have to be draconian, but I do mean that if you get charged for selling drugs (as one charge of possibly many) you should be receive higher punishment than any non-authority person in a similar setting.
the_snooze 2y ago
>The results of a perverse incentive scheme are also sometimes called cobra effects. This name was coined by economist Horst Siebert based on an anecdote taken from the British Raj. The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, people began to breed cobras for the income. When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. The cobra breeders set their snakes free, leading to an overall increase in the wild cobra population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect
speeder 2y ago
This made me remember that originally the Nazi party was quite weak and innocuous, German government then tasked a lot of people in infiltrating the party to prepare to arrest everyone. The infiltrators ended upgrading the party instead and made it too strong to stop. Hitler was one of these infiltrators.
- rqtwteye 2y ago
  Sorry that’s nonsense.
froh 2y ago
forced labor in prisons, prison factories are a business model. you need workers there. can't call them slaves any more, but that's what they are. young, strong and _not_ free to go. perfect, business wise.
- TheSalarian 2y ago
  No, you definitely can still call them slaves. From the text of the US 13th Amendment: > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
  - froh 2y ago
    uh oh didn't the US sign the UN charter of human rights? maybe they didn't. but then, who cares, under the emperor of the new Reich...
smeej 2y ago
Someone asked me about a dozen years ago to name a problem government solves that it doesn't first have a hand in creating. I still haven't come up with one.
- danbruc 2y ago
  You can not think of a single problem anarchy might have?
- rqtwteye 2y ago
  I can think of a few: - being invaded by another country - food safety - being robbed - being paid by my employer Many more. They are not completely solved but vastly improved. Try places like Sudan or Somalia and see how life is without a functioning government.
- SquareWheel 2y ago
  That doesn't seem too difficult. - Maintenance of roadways and bridges - Governments don't create wear and tear, vehicles and weather do. - Food safety standards - Governments aren't harvesting lettuce with e. coli or selling diseased meat. - Public healthcare - Governments don't create disease, but they ensure access to healthcare (at least the good ones do). - Building codes - Governments rarely build houses themselves, but they do enact requirements for acceptable building materials, wiring standards, safe insulations, and so on. - Environmental regulation - It's not entirely accurate to say that governments create zero pollution, but it's an insignificant factor compared to the industries for which they control regulations. I'm sure some could try to argue each of these points with very narrow counter-examples, or try to stretch the meaning of "have a hand in creating" to be so wide as to encompass everything. Governments are a major part of society, after all. But on the whole, these are solutions created in response to problems in society that emerged naturally, without government oversight, programs, or committees behind them.
  - zxcvbnm69 2y ago
    [dead]
- 2y ago
gadders 2y ago
>>Almost as stupid as the FBI years ago going into mosques with undercover people radicalizing some young and then arresting them. And the whole Governor Whitmer kidnap plot.

robjwells 2y ago

> Everybody involved in this should get fired. I don’t disagree but the events in question took place and were discovered over 30 years ago. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/04/Appeals-court-Sheriffs-cocaine-lab-illegal/1267694501200/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/04/Appeals-court-Sherif...

boringg 2y ago
Id agree -- it is crazy but this is 30 years ago.. For those still impacted thats a problem. Not the same level of shock though.

redwall_hp 2y ago

They should all receive the same sentence as someone they arrested for making and selling crack cocaine would.

whoitwas 2y ago
No shit. You should reconsider the context and implications.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cies 2y ago
Indeed. Police usually get fired (w/ or w/o benefits). Or put on paid leave. I think police should be held to a higher standard than the public: their training and their power (monopoly on violence) warrants that. Something else: "provocation" is usually forbidden to law enforcement. I think law enforcement needs provocation in order to catch certain bad behaviors. But certainly not for a victimless crime like dealing dope. Where I think provocation is needed as a law enforcement tool: sexual harassment in the streets (like cat calling) and govt corruption.
godelski 2y ago
No. What they did is worse. They abused their power to do the crime and evade prosecution. That's a much worse crime. It's a double standard. It undermines the entire authority system. It doesn't just harm the people they are selling crack to, it undermines the entire police system. Even a "single isolated incident" of authority abuse undermines the entire authority system. Authorities aren't equal in the eyes of the law. They are held to a higher standard. Do I have to quote fucking Spiderman (Uncle Ben Parker)?: With great power comes great responsibility. They should be charged with manufacturing schedule I drugs, selling schedule I drugs, AND conspiracy to defraud the {federal government,state of Florida,people of Florida,police}, and a bunch of other crimes. I would go so far as to say that such acts are those of treason. They acted in a way to undermine the trust of the American people, to undermine the justice system, to undermine the government that they are representing. It is unquestionable that they have caused a betrayal of trust. I think this is a problem that we let slide due to apathy. But that's why I'm so pissed about this kind of stuff. It's because treason can build slowly, and even be explained away with "best intentions." But it is this slow slide that sows distrust to the institutions we have. It gives legitimate reason to be distrustful of these systems. And without going after bad actors or without holding them to a higher standard, this too undermines the entire system. I don't think you have to be draconian, but I do mean that if you get charged for selling drugs (as one charge of possibly many) you should be receive higher punishment than any non-authority person in a similar setting.

the_snooze 2y ago

>The results of a perverse incentive scheme are also sometimes called cobra effects. This name was coined by economist Horst Siebert based on an anecdote taken from the British Raj. The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, people began to breed cobras for the income. When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. The cobra breeders set their snakes free, leading to an overall increase in the wild cobra population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

speeder 2y ago

This made me remember that originally the Nazi party was quite weak and innocuous, German government then tasked a lot of people in infiltrating the party to prepare to arrest everyone. The infiltrators ended upgrading the party instead and made it too strong to stop. Hitler was one of these infiltrators.

rqtwteye 2y ago
Sorry that’s nonsense.

froh 2y ago

forced labor in prisons, prison factories are a business model. you need workers there. can't call them slaves any more, but that's what they are. young, strong and _not_ free to go. perfect, business wise.

TheSalarian 2y ago
No, you definitely can still call them slaves. From the text of the US 13th Amendment: > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
- froh 2y ago
  uh oh didn't the US sign the UN charter of human rights? maybe they didn't. but then, who cares, under the emperor of the new Reich...

smeej 2y ago

Someone asked me about a dozen years ago to name a problem government solves that it doesn't first have a hand in creating. I still haven't come up with one.

danbruc 2y ago
You can not think of a single problem anarchy might have?
rqtwteye 2y ago
I can think of a few: - being invaded by another country - food safety - being robbed - being paid by my employer Many more. They are not completely solved but vastly improved. Try places like Sudan or Somalia and see how life is without a functioning government.
SquareWheel 2y ago
That doesn't seem too difficult. - Maintenance of roadways and bridges - Governments don't create wear and tear, vehicles and weather do. - Food safety standards - Governments aren't harvesting lettuce with e. coli or selling diseased meat. - Public healthcare - Governments don't create disease, but they ensure access to healthcare (at least the good ones do). - Building codes - Governments rarely build houses themselves, but they do enact requirements for acceptable building materials, wiring standards, safe insulations, and so on. - Environmental regulation - It's not entirely accurate to say that governments create zero pollution, but it's an insignificant factor compared to the industries for which they control regulations. I'm sure some could try to argue each of these points with very narrow counter-examples, or try to stretch the meaning of "have a hand in creating" to be so wide as to encompass everything. Governments are a major part of society, after all. But on the whole, these are solutions created in response to problems in society that emerged naturally, without government oversight, programs, or committees behind them.
- zxcvbnm69 2y ago
  [dead]
2y ago

gadders 2y ago

>>Almost as stupid as the FBI years ago going into mosques with undercover people radicalizing some young and then arresting them. And the whole Governor Whitmer kidnap plot.