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Why are Lutron Caseta or RadioRA any different than a locally-hosted Home Assistant installation with an attached Z-Wave or Zigbee radio? Why is "work[s] total

• perching_aix 2y ago
  Q: > Why is "work[s] totally independently of Home Assistant" a desirable property? A: > the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM could make it so I can't turn my lights on and off feels like a bit too much. Caseta doesn't use an open protocol, but it does allow all your switches, remotes, lights, etc, to work totally independently of HomeAssistant or Internet/WiFi
  • Cyph0n 2y ago
    Run Home Assistant OS in a VM and snapshot it on a schedule.
    • ramses0 2y ago
      aka: pretty much how the HA hardware devices (yellow/amber/green/blue) work by default.
      • Cyph0n 2y ago
        Oh cool, never heard of these! I might just have to grab the Green to try out how easy it would be for less tech savvy family :)
        • ramses0 2y ago
          https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/18c5dxc/any_reason_to_get_ha_yellow_over_green/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/18c5dxc/any_... ...I got the OG yellow/amber when it was kickstarted, and have added a 1tb NVME and a z-wave dongle (it came with zigbee). The newer ones (green) have "ditched" internal networking other than wifi for compliance / regulatory reasons (eg: 1 hardware radio == complex, 2-3 hardware radios == exponentially more complex and requires differing international certifications). https://www.home-assistant.io/green/ https://www.home-assistant.io/green/ https://www.home-assistant.io/connectzbt1/ https://www.home-assistant.io/connectzbt1/ https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/z-wave/controllers/ https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/z-wave/controllers/ https://www.home-assistant.io/common-tasks/os/#home-assistant-via-the-command-line https://www.home-assistant.io/common-tasks/os/#home-assistan... ...as that reddit thread alludes to: you're fairly better off chasing an old NUC-type-thing and just plugging in the extra dongles to that anyway (potentially zip-tying a hub, or maybe getting some 90º USB connectors so you're less worried about snapping things off if it gets bumped, dropped, or stepped on). The software is pretty darned solid, I've dug into it a fair amount and haven't had much issues with it in the ~3-4 years I've had it. As the CLI link describes, there's 2-3 layers of "reliability" going on: core => supervisor => host. Basically the supervisor will restart / rotate / backup the HA-core (aka: docker image), and you can occasionally update the "Host" (aka: OS). https://www.home-assistant.io/installation/linux/#install-home-assistant-supervised https://www.home-assistant.io/installation/linux/#install-ho... ...their HomeAssistantOS basically wraps all that up, and if you install it "that way", you effectively turn whatever hardware you're using into an "appliance"... really, just depends on what layer you want to handle your O.S. updates (ie: throw HA on as "just another service" on your homelab? ...or "let the little box manage itself"). The reason I added Z-Wave (eventually) was to get access to an exterior-rated, dimmable plug/extension cord (dimmable string lights) ... HomeKit ones were finicky, and I couldn't find any good ZigBee ones. The reason I added an NVMe inside (eventually) was I wanted to chase using it as kindof a plex-ish / backup / media server, but there's "gross" issues with HA's backup strategy by default (ie: it backs up the "whole HD", including `/Media/...`, which makes backup times exponential compared to "just the *.config.yaml", and effectively halves your usable disk space). Since you'll have to buy some of those dongles anyway, start with that and do the "home assistant OS running on a rpi" route. Get a feel for it, and then jump in to a NUC which you can air-drop next to your family's cable modem. I've got 80-90% of everything bridged over to Siri/HomeKit (all devices are treated "as good as apple home app", and only a few HA-specific "super-nerd stuff" that I've set up in the HA gui itself (ie: timed scripts for turning things on/off when we have a party in the back yard). You still have to pop in to HA when adding a new device, new device-type, or to update any of the three layers (integrations => home assistant => kernel/os/core), so like once every few months like any potentially vulnerable IoT device. Overall, a solid 7-out-of-10 (because it's OSS) ... as OSS it's 9-out-of-10... just desperately needs some cohesion, GUI-love, simplification, etc, but the compatibility and power is all there!
    • rainsford 2y ago
      That's exactly what I do and in fact I've had very few problems with Home Assistant in this setup. I just don't like the idea of needing the VM to be functional 100% of the time for my lights to work. Maybe it's just a mental block or me being old fashioned or whatever, I just think things like lighting should be able to work the old fashioned way in additional to cool home automation stuff.
  • 15155 2y ago
    Z-Wave has this. Also: how hard is it to back up 6 YAML files and a small config directory?
    • nickthegreek 2y ago
      The google drive cloud backup integration can even automate this.
• mikeyouse 2y ago
  Lutron has a physical switch that you replace your lightswitch with -- it works via the Caseta smart stuff, or it just works as a normal light switch that's 100% bulletproof. Also they use a much lower and less busy frequency (433mhz) so you get great range, no interference, and very low battery consumption when using the remote products. I went from 1/20 button pushes not doing what I wanted on Philips to 0 failures ever when I bit the bullet and replaced everything with Lutron.
  • 15155 2y ago
    So do many Z-Wave and Zigbee manufacturers? https://inovelli.com/collections/z-wave-light-switches-red-series https://inovelli.com/collections/z-wave-light-switches-red-s... https://www.getzooz.com/products/ https://www.getzooz.com/products/ https://leviton.com/products/dz15s-1bz https://leviton.com/products/dz15s-1bz https://byjasco.com/products/smart-home-automation/z-wave https://byjasco.com/products/smart-home-automation/z-wave How are any of these functionally different?
    • elcritch 2y ago
      Thanks! I've been wanting to automate my home. I'd prefer something like these with backup and without proprietary hubs. Any that you'd recommend in particular?
      • 15155 2y ago
        The Inovelli Red series Z-Wave dimmers are probably the best dimmers around with the most customization, software features, and spec compliance. Zooz is probably a close second, and probably the go-to for switches, relays, smart plugs, sensors, etc. today.
      • tass 2y ago
        I had a house full of a variety of switches I just moved out of - some Lutron, inovelli, and Leviton. For zwave, the best actual physical control was with Leviton - they have a rocker switch for dimming and are therefore easier to use than most. They don’t support multi-press scenes or anything like that but I found that to be a bit of a gimmick anyway, and dedicated buttons are a better option. Inovelli had the most features, but aren’t precisely colour matched to other brands - they are kind of whiter than the standard white colour so stand out if you put them in a bank with others or against certain face plates. In my new house I have a few zooz switches for special cases alongside Lutron for everything else and Zooz work fine. Inovelli and Zooz dimming controls are both done by holding down the on/off paddles which isn’t intuitive for visitors, and it’s hard to fine adjust without resorting to app control. Of everything my favourite is Lutron Diva for hands down the best looking and easiest to use actual physical control but these use a proprietary (albeit easy to integrate) hub.