5 ms·

Broward Co. to vacate convictions for buying crack made by Sheriff's Office

109 points by jrflowers 2y ago

koolba 2y ago
> For three years, the Broward County Sheriff’s Office produced its own crack cocaine, so it could sell it to people that deputies would then arrest for buying crack cocaine. Putting aside the insanity of a police department manufacturing crack cocaine, I’m specifically curious how they ran the books for something like this. There’s the crack money collection, the laundering of cash, expensing raw materials (i.e., powder cocaine).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  I'm sure the Broward County Sheriff had no shortage of powder cocaine in the 1990s. Just make a trip to the evidence storeroom.
  - optimalsolver 2y ago
    ...only to find it already cleared out.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
rqtwteye 2y ago
The whole thing is just insane. Instead of going up the supply chain and arresting the big fish, they are creating their own supply chain and go after addicts. Everybody involved in this should get fired. Almost as stupid as the FBI years ago going into mosques with undercover people radicalizing some young and then arresting them. Basically they are creating their own crimes which they then solve.
- robjwells 2y ago
  > Everybody involved in this should get fired. I don’t disagree but the events in question took place and were discovered over 30 years ago. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/04/Appeals-court-Sheriffs-cocaine-lab-illegal/1267694501200/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/04/Appeals-court-Sherif...
  - boringg 2y ago
    Id agree -- it is crazy but this is 30 years ago.. For those still impacted thats a problem. Not the same level of shock though.
- redwall_hp 2y ago
  They should all receive the same sentence as someone they arrested for making and selling crack cocaine would.
  - whoitwas 2y ago
    No shit. You should reconsider the context and implications.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - cies 2y ago
    Indeed. Police usually get fired (w/ or w/o benefits). Or put on paid leave. I think police should be held to a higher standard than the public: their training and their power (monopoly on violence) warrants that. Something else: "provocation" is usually forbidden to law enforcement. I think law enforcement needs provocation in order to catch certain bad behaviors. But certainly not for a victimless crime like dealing dope. Where I think provocation is needed as a law enforcement tool: sexual harassment in the streets (like cat calling) and govt corruption.
  - godelski 2y ago
    No. What they did is worse. They abused their power to do the crime and evade prosecution. That's a much worse crime. It's a double standard. It undermines the entire authority system. It doesn't just harm the people they are selling crack to, it undermines the entire police system. Even a "single isolated incident" of authority abuse undermines the entire authority system. Authorities aren't equal in the eyes of the law. They are held to a higher standard. Do I have to quote fucking Spiderman (Uncle Ben Parker)?: With great power comes great responsibility. They should be charged with manufacturing schedule I drugs, selling schedule I drugs, AND conspiracy to defraud the {federal government,state of Florida,people of Florida,police}, and a bunch of other crimes. I would go so far as to say that such acts are those of treason. They acted in a way to undermine the trust of the American people, to undermine the justice system, to undermine the government that they are representing. It is unquestionable that they have caused a betrayal of trust. I think this is a problem that we let slide due to apathy. But that's why I'm so pissed about this kind of stuff. It's because treason can build slowly, and even be explained away with "best intentions." But it is this slow slide that sows distrust to the institutions we have. It gives legitimate reason to be distrustful of these systems. And without going after bad actors or without holding them to a higher standard, this too undermines the entire system. I don't think you have to be draconian, but I do mean that if you get charged for selling drugs (as one charge of possibly many) you should be receive higher punishment than any non-authority person in a similar setting.
unsnap_biceps 2y ago
Here's the Florida State Supreme Court Ruling State v. Williams https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/1993/79507-0.html https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/1993/7950... TL;DR is "In other words, the police agencies cannot themselves do an illegal act, albeit their intended goal may be legal and desirable"
- kmoser 2y ago
  Not so much "an" illegal act, just this particular illegal act of manufacturing and selling crack cocaine. Unfortunately they can still get away with other things that ordinary citizens would be punished for, e.g. civil asset forfeiture.
  - eurleif 2y ago
    The sentence you're arguing with comes directly from the court, and your argument doesn't show it's wrong. While it's true that police officers can "get away with other things that ordinary citizens would be punished for", that's because certain laws treat police officers differently -- because those acts aren't illegal when police officers do them -- and not because they can commit illegal acts. Similarly, it's illegal for a 20 year old to drink but legal for a 21 year old to drink, and that doesn't mean 21 year olds can do illegal acts. You can certainly believe that it's bad for the law to allow civil asset forfeiture; but that has nothing to do with the court's statement here. Furthermore, it's rather absurd to say that the law should never treat police officers or other government agents differently in any way, which you seem to be implying by referring to this as categorically "unfortunate". Police officers need to arrest and jail people, for example, which are (with some exceptions) powers not granted to ordinary citizens. If agents of the government had no powers beyond those of ordinary citizens, then in what sense would we even have a government?
    - lazide 2y ago
      Yup, and is typically the case there are explicit carve outs in the law for law enforcement for possession, etc. ‘in the course of their duties’ (Florida 893.06(2), 893.09(5), among others). [https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2023/Chapter893/All https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2023/Chapter893/All] That second carve out making them immune to both civil and criminal penalties (talk about immunity!) is especially generous. But as noted, in the eyes of the legislature there has to be or it would literally be impossible for them to do their jobs. And hey, it wasn’t that long ago you had literal machine gun shootouts [https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/mac-10-submachine-gun/462788 https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/mac-10-submachine-gun...]. “The two assassins returned to the van and liberally sprayed the parking lot and surrounding shops with gunfire apparently just for meanness.” Also [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_drug_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_drug_war] No cop is going anywhere near that insanity without near blanket immunity. You have to go pretty above and beyond to have the courts slap you down like this in that kind of environment. Like manufacturing your own crack, apparently.
gotoeleven 2y ago
[flagged]
jeffbee 2y ago
Fun fact: the sheriff who came up with the crack reverse sting operation was also the guy who tried to prosecute rappers for obscenity. Basically his only interactions with the Supreme Court of Florida was being reprimanded for unconstitutional actions.
- ipnon 2y ago
  If inconsistency is the hobgoblin of foolish minds, then this sheriff might be a genius.
akshayrajp 2y ago
Breaking Bad if Hank teamed up with Walt.
- jrflowers 2y ago
  My questions about what you remember that show being about aside, you don’t need to be a chemist to make crack. It is kind of famous in its simplicity of preparation, like Jello.
metalman 2y ago
in Canada, the pricing for legalised canabis was derived from the price charged in the illegal market, and is now enforced through legal protection of the sellers market. There was NO discussion about how canibis is a weed, and can be grown and processed for less than 1% of the price now forced on consumers. And in Canada we have a law that states that any proceeds or profits from crime are to siezed and prosecuted. And here we have a whole industry, "ported" from crime to legal, magicaly avoiding any interem process that would let the "market" establish itself and pricing. Then there is a whole sharad around enforcing the wildest and strictest regulations on anyone trying to grow hemp for cloth......
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
whoitwas 2y ago
In America cops bring the drugs and violence. They are always the biggest and best equipped gang in the area. We're completely fucking retarded. It's fine.

109 points by jrflowers 2y ago

> For three years, the Broward County Sheriff’s Office produced its own crack cocaine, so it could sell it to people that deputies would then arrest for buying crack cocaine. Putting aside the insanity of a police department manufacturing crack cocaine, I’m specifically curious how they ran the books for something like this. There’s the crack money collection, the laundering of cash, expensing raw materials (i.e., powder cocaine).

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
SoftTalker 2y ago
I'm sure the Broward County Sheriff had no shortage of powder cocaine in the 1990s. Just make a trip to the evidence storeroom.
- optimalsolver 2y ago
  ...only to find it already cleared out.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

rqtwteye 2y ago

The whole thing is just insane. Instead of going up the supply chain and arresting the big fish, they are creating their own supply chain and go after addicts. Everybody involved in this should get fired. Almost as stupid as the FBI years ago going into mosques with undercover people radicalizing some young and then arresting them. Basically they are creating their own crimes which they then solve.

robjwells 2y ago
> Everybody involved in this should get fired. I don’t disagree but the events in question took place and were discovered over 30 years ago. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/04/Appeals-court-Sheriffs-cocaine-lab-illegal/1267694501200/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/04/Appeals-court-Sherif...
- boringg 2y ago
  Id agree -- it is crazy but this is 30 years ago.. For those still impacted thats a problem. Not the same level of shock though.
redwall_hp 2y ago
They should all receive the same sentence as someone they arrested for making and selling crack cocaine would.
- whoitwas 2y ago
  No shit. You should reconsider the context and implications.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cies 2y ago
  Indeed. Police usually get fired (w/ or w/o benefits). Or put on paid leave. I think police should be held to a higher standard than the public: their training and their power (monopoly on violence) warrants that. Something else: "provocation" is usually forbidden to law enforcement. I think law enforcement needs provocation in order to catch certain bad behaviors. But certainly not for a victimless crime like dealing dope. Where I think provocation is needed as a law enforcement tool: sexual harassment in the streets (like cat calling) and govt corruption.
- godelski 2y ago
  No. What they did is worse. They abused their power to do the crime and evade prosecution. That's a much worse crime. It's a double standard. It undermines the entire authority system. It doesn't just harm the people they are selling crack to, it undermines the entire police system. Even a "single isolated incident" of authority abuse undermines the entire authority system. Authorities aren't equal in the eyes of the law. They are held to a higher standard. Do I have to quote fucking Spiderman (Uncle Ben Parker)?: With great power comes great responsibility. They should be charged with manufacturing schedule I drugs, selling schedule I drugs, AND conspiracy to defraud the {federal government,state of Florida,people of Florida,police}, and a bunch of other crimes. I would go so far as to say that such acts are those of treason. They acted in a way to undermine the trust of the American people, to undermine the justice system, to undermine the government that they are representing. It is unquestionable that they have caused a betrayal of trust. I think this is a problem that we let slide due to apathy. But that's why I'm so pissed about this kind of stuff. It's because treason can build slowly, and even be explained away with "best intentions." But it is this slow slide that sows distrust to the institutions we have. It gives legitimate reason to be distrustful of these systems. And without going after bad actors or without holding them to a higher standard, this too undermines the entire system. I don't think you have to be draconian, but I do mean that if you get charged for selling drugs (as one charge of possibly many) you should be receive higher punishment than any non-authority person in a similar setting.

unsnap_biceps 2y ago

Here's the Florida State Supreme Court Ruling State v. Williams https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/1993/79507-0.html https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/1993/7950... TL;DR is "In other words, the police agencies cannot themselves do an illegal act, albeit their intended goal may be legal and desirable"

kmoser 2y ago
Not so much "an" illegal act, just this particular illegal act of manufacturing and selling crack cocaine. Unfortunately they can still get away with other things that ordinary citizens would be punished for, e.g. civil asset forfeiture.
- eurleif 2y ago
  The sentence you're arguing with comes directly from the court, and your argument doesn't show it's wrong. While it's true that police officers can "get away with other things that ordinary citizens would be punished for", that's because certain laws treat police officers differently -- because those acts aren't illegal when police officers do them -- and not because they can commit illegal acts. Similarly, it's illegal for a 20 year old to drink but legal for a 21 year old to drink, and that doesn't mean 21 year olds can do illegal acts. You can certainly believe that it's bad for the law to allow civil asset forfeiture; but that has nothing to do with the court's statement here. Furthermore, it's rather absurd to say that the law should never treat police officers or other government agents differently in any way, which you seem to be implying by referring to this as categorically "unfortunate". Police officers need to arrest and jail people, for example, which are (with some exceptions) powers not granted to ordinary citizens. If agents of the government had no powers beyond those of ordinary citizens, then in what sense would we even have a government?
  - lazide 2y ago
    Yup, and is typically the case there are explicit carve outs in the law for law enforcement for possession, etc. ‘in the course of their duties’ (Florida 893.06(2), 893.09(5), among others). [https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2023/Chapter893/All https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2023/Chapter893/All] That second carve out making them immune to both civil and criminal penalties (talk about immunity!) is especially generous. But as noted, in the eyes of the legislature there has to be or it would literally be impossible for them to do their jobs. And hey, it wasn’t that long ago you had literal machine gun shootouts [https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/mac-10-submachine-gun/462788 https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/mac-10-submachine-gun...]. “The two assassins returned to the van and liberally sprayed the parking lot and surrounding shops with gunfire apparently just for meanness.” Also [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_drug_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_drug_war] No cop is going anywhere near that insanity without near blanket immunity. You have to go pretty above and beyond to have the courts slap you down like this in that kind of environment. Like manufacturing your own crack, apparently.

gotoeleven 2y ago

[flagged]

jeffbee 2y ago

Fun fact: the sheriff who came up with the crack reverse sting operation was also the guy who tried to prosecute rappers for obscenity. Basically his only interactions with the Supreme Court of Florida was being reprimanded for unconstitutional actions.

ipnon 2y ago
If inconsistency is the hobgoblin of foolish minds, then this sheriff might be a genius.

akshayrajp 2y ago

Breaking Bad if Hank teamed up with Walt.

jrflowers 2y ago
My questions about what you remember that show being about aside, you don’t need to be a chemist to make crack. It is kind of famous in its simplicity of preparation, like Jello.

metalman 2y ago

in Canada, the pricing for legalised canabis was derived from the price charged in the illegal market, and is now enforced through legal protection of the sellers market. There was NO discussion about how canibis is a weed, and can be grown and processed for less than 1% of the price now forced on consumers. And in Canada we have a law that states that any proceeds or profits from crime are to siezed and prosecuted. And here we have a whole industry, "ported" from crime to legal, magicaly avoiding any interem process that would let the "market" establish itself and pricing. Then there is a whole sharad around enforcing the wildest and strictest regulations on anyone trying to grow hemp for cloth......

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

whoitwas 2y ago

In America cops bring the drugs and violence. They are always the biggest and best equipped gang in the area. We're completely fucking retarded. It's fine.