6 ms·

If you're going down the HomeAssistant route I'd recommend ditching any proprietary hubs and getting a Zigbee dongle instead, I've been using the Sonoff Zigbee

If you're going down the HomeAssistant route I'd recommend ditching any proprietary hubs and getting a Zigbee dongle instead, I've been using the Sonoff Zigbee dongle and even though it's connected to the server, in a rack, in the garage (so thick breezeblock walls between it and the rest of the house) there are enough always on mesh nodes in the lights themselves that the network is steady. Granted, the Dongle itself isn't inside the enclosed rack, it's on a USB extension cable and mounted on the top. I've also gone the Zigbee2MQTT (ZQM) route instead of the ZHM built into HomeAssistant as it just supports a lot more, and a lot better in my experience. Once you're in the open world of Zigbee, you can also go the Ikea Tradfri route as well for bulbs that are a WHOLE lot cheaper.

hagbard_c 2y ago
Another alternative for those who like to tinker is to get Tuya-powered devices which can be reprogrammed to use Tasmota, ESPhome, OpenBeken or something similar. Reprogramming the things can be as simple as running some tool - this used to be the case but it is getting rare since the vulnerabilities used to take over the devices are getting fixed - or as involved as opening up the devices to connect a TTL/USB serial adapter and a power supply after which the thing(s) can be flashed. The advantage of using this approach is that you get close to total control over the devices, you do not need any hubs, your creativity and the hardware are the only limits. I just flashed a batch of 16 'energy metering smart plugs' this way using a TTL/USB adapter, two clothes pegs, three sewing needles, a patch wire and a breadboard [1]. No soldering necessary, just point the needles at the right chip legs, push the patch wire in the right spot and flash the firmware. As far as I'm concerned this is the only way to use IoT devices, using free software under your own control. Software which only communicates with hosts you designate. Software which is not dependent on 'cloud' services. Software, above all, which can not be used to turn your equipment against you - not by spying on you, not by selling your data to others, not to bring down the electricity network by simultaneously switching off and on massive amounts of equipment every 10 seconds. Even so I run these devices on a separate network which can not reach outside of its own /24 (no IPv6 on this network, it is not necessary). I also don't use Home Assistant since I prefer openHAB, at least for now. I've tried HA (core) but thus far I'm not convinced it offers something I can not get from openHAB which I've been using for years now. [1] https://www.elektroda.com/rtvforum/topic4042412-60.html#21334978 https://www.elektroda.com/rtvforum/topic4042412-60.html#2133...
- stavros 2y ago
  This is OK, but Zigbee is better. It runs offline, the devices can't access the internet so no data issues, and it's a standard protocol that's trivial to interface with over the MQTT bridge.
  - rainsford 2y ago
    My (maybe incorrect) understanding is that Zigbee devices can't independently pair with each other, so if you want a particular switch to control a particular light you still need some sort of controller to be operating even if it's on your own local network. This is better than requiring Internet access, but a notable reliability downgrade from normal light switches unless your controller is 100% bulletproof.
    - Muromec 2y ago
      You can pair zigbee switch to a light without a hub, it just works
    - stavros 2y ago
      Sure, but we're comparing other smart home setups to Zigbee, not Zigbee to old-style wall switches. However, you can also pair Zigbee switches to other Zigbee devices directly (although I've never tried it).
    - cyberax 2y ago
      > My (maybe incorrect) understanding is that Zigbee devices can't independently pair with each other They can! You can bind clusters from several devices together, I have a couple of such devices. For example, you can bind a two wall light switches together. The problem is that the UI for it is typically hidden and/or absent.
pockybum522 2y ago
I second all of this. I went with the little blue stick from HA and things have been great.
audunw 2y ago
You can use IKEA trådfri with Philips Hue. It’s a bit annoying to pair but once that’s done it just works, at least it has for me.
- ZekeSulastin 2y ago
  I have some random Amazon Zigbee bulbs connected to my Hue Bridge; the only annoying thing is that, while they show up in the Hue app, Hue doesn't expose them to Homekit like it does its native bulbs. At least Homebridge will get them to show up.
  - mvanbaak 2y ago
    They also cant be part of a multimedia zone so no ambilight/sync with the hue sync box or a philips tv
- theshrike79 2y ago
  Ironically the IKEA hub is better than the Philips one. Less options for automation, but it's 100% local only by default. You need to specifically enable remote operation.
  - fransje26 2y ago
    The Ikea Dirigera Hub?
- mvanbaak 2y ago
  There are at least 2 problems with this setup (besides the fact that brightness and colors are a lot better on hue then on any of the others) 1) non hue lights wont be homekit compatible (they dont even get exposed to homekit) 2) non hue lights cant be used in multimedia zones so no ambilight there
dav43 2y ago
Have gone this route and exposed a variety of manufacturers devices to HomeKit through HA. Been surprised by the reliability. 3 years in.
stavros 2y ago
I agree, this is the way. If you do this, remember to install the devices on their final location and only then attempt to pair, so the device pairs to the closest appropriate router.
rainsford 2y ago
Zigbee is good, but for lights or anything else you really want to always work, I'd recommend going with something that also works independently of HomeAssistant and Internet access even if you then need a proprietary hub to integrate with HomeAssistant. Lutron's Caseta system is what I went with. I've found HomeAssistant with Zigbee to be extremely reliable, but the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM could make it so I can't turn my lights on and off feels like a bit too much. Caseta doesn't use an open protocol, but it does allow all your switches, remotes, lights, etc, to work totally independently of HomeAssistant or Internet/WiFi, and the hub allows integration with home automation or remote control. I've played around with Philips Hue and other smart bulbs, but it feels too much like a toy rather than something I'd replace all of my lights with, and ultimately I ended up with an all Caseta light setup for my home.
- mastax 2y ago
  With zigbee you can “bind” devices together, so that their interactions work without needing the hub to intervene. I bound my IKEA buttons to my IKEA lights with my homeassistant controller (with some difficulty) so that even when the controller is offline the buttons will still work.
  - Rotareti 2y ago
    I think it's called 'direct binding.' All of my lights are directly bound to my switches, so they work even without the server or Zigbee coordinator running. With some switches, you can even bind light scenes directly to the buttons. For example, you can bind the four buttons of a Philips Hue Tap Dial to different light scenes using Zigbee2MQTT. Some switches don't allow direct binding, though. All of the Hue switches I tried support it, but some Tuya switches don't. On the other hand, all lights from different manufacturers which I tried were able to bind directly. The first year I had to fiddle a lot with the tooling. The uptime of HA/zigbee2mqtt wasn't great. It was good to have this as a fall back.
    - addandsubtract 2y ago
      Do you have to choose between direct binding -or- controlling them through HA, or can you still control them through HA even when they are directly bound? Because I directly paired a switch with a light before (in Philips Hue), but then wasn't able to control it through the app anymore. Since switching to HA and Zigbee2mqtt, I just used triggers with switches, but wasn't aware that direct binding is a possibility. Gonna have to look into that now :)
acidburnNSA 2y ago
This was my path. After Philips Hue required that I make an online account with them and wouldn't let me use my local-only devices without it, I rage bought a Sonoff dongle and transferred all my HUE lights over to it and then unceremoniously threw away my hue bridge. Zigbee2MQTT is working great. I'll always pay more for freedom from corporate project managers subscription metrics in my smart home devices. This philosophy works too, I've been pretty deep into home automation since 2015 and haven't lost even one device due to deprecation or sunsetting yet.
- anbotero 2y ago
  This. Also, at least being offline-first should be a must. I went to a friend’s house, and she has a system to enable and disable lights, water, etc. There was a power outage in the area... she couldn’t enable the water to flow. What a joke.
Caligatio 2y ago
Going this route then eliminates the free/included Google Assistant integration that comes along with using the bridge and app, correct? I really would like to ditch the hub but also want to use voice activation on a few lights.
BlackLotus89 2y ago
Maybe it's just my specific setup, but my Hue lights don't support color when using ZigBee. I still use it this way since I rarely want to change the color temperature, but this is something for people considering such a setup to consider
baq 2y ago
Phillips Hues are just in another league compared to tradfris. One of those cases where you really get what you pay for.
- philjackson 2y ago
  Can you describe how? I have the IKEA bulbs throughout and it's difficult to imagine how they'd be any better.
  - baq 2y ago
    Well... they're better, slightly or more noticeably, at everything: better color accuracy, dims lower, brightness is more linear, transitions are smoother... on paper they're similar, but when you actually use them, the differences become apparent quite quickly. (Disclaimer - have some GU10 Hues and some E27 Tradfris, both RGB).
    - philjohn 2y ago
      At some point though it becomes "are those improvements worth the inflated price tag" and for a LOT of people, the colour accuracy is good enough etc.
      - baq 2y ago
        Well there's a reason I have those Tradfris ;)

hagbard_c 2y ago

Another alternative for those who like to tinker is to get Tuya-powered devices which can be reprogrammed to use Tasmota, ESPhome, OpenBeken or something similar. Reprogramming the things can be as simple as running some tool - this used to be the case but it is getting rare since the vulnerabilities used to take over the devices are getting fixed - or as involved as opening up the devices to connect a TTL/USB serial adapter and a power supply after which the thing(s) can be flashed. The advantage of using this approach is that you get close to total control over the devices, you do not need any hubs, your creativity and the hardware are the only limits. I just flashed a batch of 16 'energy metering smart plugs' this way using a TTL/USB adapter, two clothes pegs, three sewing needles, a patch wire and a breadboard [1]. No soldering necessary, just point the needles at the right chip legs, push the patch wire in the right spot and flash the firmware. As far as I'm concerned this is the only way to use IoT devices, using free software under your own control. Software which only communicates with hosts you designate. Software which is not dependent on 'cloud' services. Software, above all, which can not be used to turn your equipment against you - not by spying on you, not by selling your data to others, not to bring down the electricity network by simultaneously switching off and on massive amounts of equipment every 10 seconds. Even so I run these devices on a separate network which can not reach outside of its own /24 (no IPv6 on this network, it is not necessary). I also don't use Home Assistant since I prefer openHAB, at least for now. I've tried HA (core) but thus far I'm not convinced it offers something I can not get from openHAB which I've been using for years now. [1] https://www.elektroda.com/rtvforum/topic4042412-60.html#21334978 https://www.elektroda.com/rtvforum/topic4042412-60.html#2133...

stavros 2y ago
This is OK, but Zigbee is better. It runs offline, the devices can't access the internet so no data issues, and it's a standard protocol that's trivial to interface with over the MQTT bridge.
- rainsford 2y ago
  My (maybe incorrect) understanding is that Zigbee devices can't independently pair with each other, so if you want a particular switch to control a particular light you still need some sort of controller to be operating even if it's on your own local network. This is better than requiring Internet access, but a notable reliability downgrade from normal light switches unless your controller is 100% bulletproof.
  - Muromec 2y ago
    You can pair zigbee switch to a light without a hub, it just works
  - stavros 2y ago
    Sure, but we're comparing other smart home setups to Zigbee, not Zigbee to old-style wall switches. However, you can also pair Zigbee switches to other Zigbee devices directly (although I've never tried it).
  - cyberax 2y ago
    > My (maybe incorrect) understanding is that Zigbee devices can't independently pair with each other They can! You can bind clusters from several devices together, I have a couple of such devices. For example, you can bind a two wall light switches together. The problem is that the UI for it is typically hidden and/or absent.

pockybum522 2y ago

I second all of this. I went with the little blue stick from HA and things have been great.

audunw 2y ago

You can use IKEA trådfri with Philips Hue. It’s a bit annoying to pair but once that’s done it just works, at least it has for me.

ZekeSulastin 2y ago
I have some random Amazon Zigbee bulbs connected to my Hue Bridge; the only annoying thing is that, while they show up in the Hue app, Hue doesn't expose them to Homekit like it does its native bulbs. At least Homebridge will get them to show up.
- mvanbaak 2y ago
  They also cant be part of a multimedia zone so no ambilight/sync with the hue sync box or a philips tv
theshrike79 2y ago
Ironically the IKEA hub is better than the Philips one. Less options for automation, but it's 100% local only by default. You need to specifically enable remote operation.
- fransje26 2y ago
  The Ikea Dirigera Hub?
mvanbaak 2y ago
There are at least 2 problems with this setup (besides the fact that brightness and colors are a lot better on hue then on any of the others) 1) non hue lights wont be homekit compatible (they dont even get exposed to homekit) 2) non hue lights cant be used in multimedia zones so no ambilight there

dav43 2y ago

Have gone this route and exposed a variety of manufacturers devices to HomeKit through HA. Been surprised by the reliability. 3 years in.

stavros 2y ago

I agree, this is the way. If you do this, remember to install the devices on their final location and only then attempt to pair, so the device pairs to the closest appropriate router.

rainsford 2y ago

Zigbee is good, but for lights or anything else you really want to always work, I'd recommend going with something that also works independently of HomeAssistant and Internet access even if you then need a proprietary hub to integrate with HomeAssistant. Lutron's Caseta system is what I went with. I've found HomeAssistant with Zigbee to be extremely reliable, but the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM could make it so I can't turn my lights on and off feels like a bit too much. Caseta doesn't use an open protocol, but it does allow all your switches, remotes, lights, etc, to work totally independently of HomeAssistant or Internet/WiFi, and the hub allows integration with home automation or remote control. I've played around with Philips Hue and other smart bulbs, but it feels too much like a toy rather than something I'd replace all of my lights with, and ultimately I ended up with an all Caseta light setup for my home.

mastax 2y ago
With zigbee you can “bind” devices together, so that their interactions work without needing the hub to intervene. I bound my IKEA buttons to my IKEA lights with my homeassistant controller (with some difficulty) so that even when the controller is offline the buttons will still work.
- Rotareti 2y ago
  I think it's called 'direct binding.' All of my lights are directly bound to my switches, so they work even without the server or Zigbee coordinator running. With some switches, you can even bind light scenes directly to the buttons. For example, you can bind the four buttons of a Philips Hue Tap Dial to different light scenes using Zigbee2MQTT. Some switches don't allow direct binding, though. All of the Hue switches I tried support it, but some Tuya switches don't. On the other hand, all lights from different manufacturers which I tried were able to bind directly. The first year I had to fiddle a lot with the tooling. The uptime of HA/zigbee2mqtt wasn't great. It was good to have this as a fall back.
  - addandsubtract 2y ago
    Do you have to choose between direct binding -or- controlling them through HA, or can you still control them through HA even when they are directly bound? Because I directly paired a switch with a light before (in Philips Hue), but then wasn't able to control it through the app anymore. Since switching to HA and Zigbee2mqtt, I just used triggers with switches, but wasn't aware that direct binding is a possibility. Gonna have to look into that now :)

acidburnNSA 2y ago

This was my path. After Philips Hue required that I make an online account with them and wouldn't let me use my local-only devices without it, I rage bought a Sonoff dongle and transferred all my HUE lights over to it and then unceremoniously threw away my hue bridge. Zigbee2MQTT is working great. I'll always pay more for freedom from corporate project managers subscription metrics in my smart home devices. This philosophy works too, I've been pretty deep into home automation since 2015 and haven't lost even one device due to deprecation or sunsetting yet.

anbotero 2y ago
This. Also, at least being offline-first should be a must. I went to a friend’s house, and she has a system to enable and disable lights, water, etc. There was a power outage in the area... she couldn’t enable the water to flow. What a joke.

Caligatio 2y ago

Going this route then eliminates the free/included Google Assistant integration that comes along with using the bridge and app, correct? I really would like to ditch the hub but also want to use voice activation on a few lights.

BlackLotus89 2y ago

Maybe it's just my specific setup, but my Hue lights don't support color when using ZigBee. I still use it this way since I rarely want to change the color temperature, but this is something for people considering such a setup to consider

baq 2y ago

Phillips Hues are just in another league compared to tradfris. One of those cases where you really get what you pay for.

philjackson 2y ago
Can you describe how? I have the IKEA bulbs throughout and it's difficult to imagine how they'd be any better.
- baq 2y ago
  Well... they're better, slightly or more noticeably, at everything: better color accuracy, dims lower, brightness is more linear, transitions are smoother... on paper they're similar, but when you actually use them, the differences become apparent quite quickly. (Disclaimer - have some GU10 Hues and some E27 Tradfris, both RGB).
  - philjohn 2y ago
    At some point though it becomes "are those improvements worth the inflated price tag" and for a LOT of people, the colour accuracy is good enough etc.
    - baq 2y ago
      Well there's a reason I have those Tradfris ;)