3 ms·

> It wasn't until 2021, though, when Apple introduced its Spatial Audio feature for Apple Music and its AirPods Pro wireless earbuds, that Dolby Atmos really to

> It wasn't until 2021, though, when Apple introduced its Spatial Audio feature for Apple Music and its AirPods Pro wireless earbuds, that Dolby Atmos really took off in the music space. It was an exciting development, using advanced audio processing technology to create a lifelike surround sound effect using just a pair of earbuds. As a lover of music and a hobbyist musician, I hate Spatial Audio. It’s corrupting the mix created by the artists. I turned it off immediately.

CharlesW 2y ago
> It’s corrupting the mix created by the artists. Like stereo mixes, Atmos mixes are also created by the artists with their production and engineering teams. The real problem, as the article notes, is that we're in the early days of mixing for object-based audio, just as we were once in the early days of mixing for CD. Mixes for the then-new CD format were sometimes terrible. As the article also notes, there are some stellar Atoms mixes out there: "…some albums really have been mastered well for the format, to the point where I prefer listening to the Atmos version. An example of this is the Pixies' classic album Doolittle, which has an absolutely stellar Atmos remix. I will sometimes turn Atmos back on just to listen to that album."
- alsetmusic 2y ago
  > Mixes for the then-new CD format were sometimes terrible. Mixes for the then-new FM radio were stereo. CDs didn't change mixes. We had stereo on tapes, even on records. AM was mono. FM was stereo. I don't believe you're up on the technology with this data point.
saaaaaam 2y ago
This is not correct. Atmos doesn’t just happen. The artist (or label) has to supply an atmos mix. There are some labels which are supplying “upmixed” Atmos audio - but this is now being rejected by Apple. So generally speaking if you hear an Atmos mix this has been consciously and specifically created. Albeit some Atmos engineers are better than others.
- likeabatterycar 2y ago
  No, the parent has it right. This practice has gone on for decades, with most rock music of the 60s (Beatles, Beach Boys come to mind) having the mono mix as the definitive version with artist input, and the stereo mix thrown together by a lone engineer in an afternoon after the fact.
  - saaaaaam 2y ago
    That’s just not true I’m afraid. I have domain specific knowledge in this area and recently talked to 20+ Atmos engineers for a piece of research I was commissioned to carry out. Atmos mixes are not “just thrown together” and now, more often than not, the Atmos mix is primary and the stero mix is simply folded down from the Atmos master.
    - alsetmusic 2y ago
      Given that the Beatles never sat in on any of their stereo mixes, I'm hesitant to take you at your word. I'm not calling you a liar. I just want more data before I change my opinion. Can you please provide sources on atmos mixes being approved by artists?
      - saaaaaam 2y ago
        I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I did not say that Atmos mixes are "being approved by artists", I said that "the artist (or label) has to supply an atmos mix", and that was in response to your comment saying that Spatial Audio is "corrupting the mix created by the artists". I said that it was being "consciously and specifically created" and my meaning here was that it's not just something being done as an afterthought, and it's not just being thrown together. Generally speaking the artist is not "creating the mix" - they are giving input, and approving it, but not creating it. A mix is made after recording, by a mix engineer. The job of the mix engineer is to place all the stems within the stereo (or in Atmos, XYZ) soundscape to make them all work together, including adding texture, effects and balancing all the elements to make them sound right. An artist will say what they want, they (or their label) will be involved in selecting the mix and/or mastering engineer, and someone will approve the final mix. The example of Beach Boys and Beatles mixes being "thrown together in an afternoon" mix have been true 50+ years ago, when stereo was the new cool thing, but that was 50 years ago... However, the idea that an Atmos mix is "corrupting the mix created by artists" is just not the case - for the reasons above, but also because most frontline music is being mixed in Atmos by default now: that's because of various things including future proofing, but primarily because some streaming services (Apple Music in particular) offer an uplifted royalty rate for "spatial available" audio. You can read more about that here: https://itunespartner.apple.com/music/support/5216-delivering-dolby-atmos-audio https://itunespartner.apple.com/music/support/5216-deliverin... "Creating music in Spatial Audio takes a high caliber of dedication, and Apple Music acknowledges these efforts. Spatial Audio content receives a greater share of sound-recording royalties on Apple Music than content not available in Spatial Audio, by a rate of up to 10%." So pretty much anything current via a major label (Universal Music, Sony Music, Warner Music) is going to be delivered in Atmos. The major labels are also remastering high-performing catalogue to take advantage of the royalty uplift. Whether an artist is directly involved in approving a mix or not depends on a whole bunch of things - but someone is definitely approving the mix, and more importantly, someone is selecting and hiring a mix engineer who understands Atmos. You can read Universal Music's guidelines on Atmos mixing standards here: https://contentguide.universalmusic.com/dolby-atmos-audio-best-practices/ https://contentguide.universalmusic.com/dolby-atmos-audio-be... In particular, it's worth noting statements such as "This section aims to support you in your workflows based on our learnings from the past years of working with Engineers during the Dolby Atmos mix and Mastering process." and "UMG will review Dolby Atmos mixes to ensure a quality experience with meaningful format engagement." Apple has some pretty specific guidelines about what is allowed when delivering content as Atmos - from the document I linked to earlier. In particular "Upmixing from a stereo release is not allowed. Extracting stems (“de-mixing”) from a stereo release is not allowed. A Dolby Atmos track consisting only of a stereo mix placed in the sound field with added ambience or reverb is not allowed." You may be hesitant to take me at my word, but I can assure you I have detailed knowledge of this area. I think I've found your instagram profile (which is similar to your username but with an additional word) so I'll message you proof of my credentials if you wish.
enaaem 2y ago
There can be bad implementations, but I am not against it in principle. There is no reason why music has to come only from the front like in case of stereo.
NoPicklez 2y ago
I can't stand the spatial audio, it sounds too "airy" as opposed to when its off. It's like the instruments feel further away from me as opposed to directly in my ear. Or like I'm listening to music where the instruments are further away from me.
- emptiestplace 2y ago
  Yes, that's the point.

CharlesW 2y ago

> It’s corrupting the mix created by the artists. Like stereo mixes, Atmos mixes are also created by the artists with their production and engineering teams. The real problem, as the article notes, is that we're in the early days of mixing for object-based audio, just as we were once in the early days of mixing for CD. Mixes for the then-new CD format were sometimes terrible. As the article also notes, there are some stellar Atoms mixes out there: "…some albums really have been mastered well for the format, to the point where I prefer listening to the Atmos version. An example of this is the Pixies' classic album Doolittle, which has an absolutely stellar Atmos remix. I will sometimes turn Atmos back on just to listen to that album."

alsetmusic 2y ago
> Mixes for the then-new CD format were sometimes terrible. Mixes for the then-new FM radio were stereo. CDs didn't change mixes. We had stereo on tapes, even on records. AM was mono. FM was stereo. I don't believe you're up on the technology with this data point.

saaaaaam 2y ago

This is not correct. Atmos doesn’t just happen. The artist (or label) has to supply an atmos mix. There are some labels which are supplying “upmixed” Atmos audio - but this is now being rejected by Apple. So generally speaking if you hear an Atmos mix this has been consciously and specifically created. Albeit some Atmos engineers are better than others.

likeabatterycar 2y ago
No, the parent has it right. This practice has gone on for decades, with most rock music of the 60s (Beatles, Beach Boys come to mind) having the mono mix as the definitive version with artist input, and the stereo mix thrown together by a lone engineer in an afternoon after the fact.
- saaaaaam 2y ago
  That’s just not true I’m afraid. I have domain specific knowledge in this area and recently talked to 20+ Atmos engineers for a piece of research I was commissioned to carry out. Atmos mixes are not “just thrown together” and now, more often than not, the Atmos mix is primary and the stero mix is simply folded down from the Atmos master.
  - alsetmusic 2y ago
    Given that the Beatles never sat in on any of their stereo mixes, I'm hesitant to take you at your word. I'm not calling you a liar. I just want more data before I change my opinion. Can you please provide sources on atmos mixes being approved by artists?
    - saaaaaam 2y ago
      I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I did not say that Atmos mixes are "being approved by artists", I said that "the artist (or label) has to supply an atmos mix", and that was in response to your comment saying that Spatial Audio is "corrupting the mix created by the artists". I said that it was being "consciously and specifically created" and my meaning here was that it's not just something being done as an afterthought, and it's not just being thrown together. Generally speaking the artist is not "creating the mix" - they are giving input, and approving it, but not creating it. A mix is made after recording, by a mix engineer. The job of the mix engineer is to place all the stems within the stereo (or in Atmos, XYZ) soundscape to make them all work together, including adding texture, effects and balancing all the elements to make them sound right. An artist will say what they want, they (or their label) will be involved in selecting the mix and/or mastering engineer, and someone will approve the final mix. The example of Beach Boys and Beatles mixes being "thrown together in an afternoon" mix have been true 50+ years ago, when stereo was the new cool thing, but that was 50 years ago... However, the idea that an Atmos mix is "corrupting the mix created by artists" is just not the case - for the reasons above, but also because most frontline music is being mixed in Atmos by default now: that's because of various things including future proofing, but primarily because some streaming services (Apple Music in particular) offer an uplifted royalty rate for "spatial available" audio. You can read more about that here: https://itunespartner.apple.com/music/support/5216-delivering-dolby-atmos-audio https://itunespartner.apple.com/music/support/5216-deliverin... "Creating music in Spatial Audio takes a high caliber of dedication, and Apple Music acknowledges these efforts. Spatial Audio content receives a greater share of sound-recording royalties on Apple Music than content not available in Spatial Audio, by a rate of up to 10%." So pretty much anything current via a major label (Universal Music, Sony Music, Warner Music) is going to be delivered in Atmos. The major labels are also remastering high-performing catalogue to take advantage of the royalty uplift. Whether an artist is directly involved in approving a mix or not depends on a whole bunch of things - but someone is definitely approving the mix, and more importantly, someone is selecting and hiring a mix engineer who understands Atmos. You can read Universal Music's guidelines on Atmos mixing standards here: https://contentguide.universalmusic.com/dolby-atmos-audio-best-practices/ https://contentguide.universalmusic.com/dolby-atmos-audio-be... In particular, it's worth noting statements such as "This section aims to support you in your workflows based on our learnings from the past years of working with Engineers during the Dolby Atmos mix and Mastering process." and "UMG will review Dolby Atmos mixes to ensure a quality experience with meaningful format engagement." Apple has some pretty specific guidelines about what is allowed when delivering content as Atmos - from the document I linked to earlier. In particular "Upmixing from a stereo release is not allowed. Extracting stems (“de-mixing”) from a stereo release is not allowed. A Dolby Atmos track consisting only of a stereo mix placed in the sound field with added ambience or reverb is not allowed." You may be hesitant to take me at my word, but I can assure you I have detailed knowledge of this area. I think I've found your instagram profile (which is similar to your username but with an additional word) so I'll message you proof of my credentials if you wish.

enaaem 2y ago

There can be bad implementations, but I am not against it in principle. There is no reason why music has to come only from the front like in case of stereo.

NoPicklez 2y ago

I can't stand the spatial audio, it sounds too "airy" as opposed to when its off. It's like the instruments feel further away from me as opposed to directly in my ear. Or like I'm listening to music where the instruments are further away from me.

emptiestplace 2y ago
Yes, that's the point.