7 ms·

>Can we do gambling ads next? As long as we ban ads for stock trading platforms (i.e. gambling for the professional classes) at the same time.

jsheard 2y ago
I don't disagree, but stock trading ads are in some ways already more strictly regulated than gambling ads here. Gambling ads are required to have a vague "please gamble responsibly" statement, but ads for CFD trading platforms are required to have a prominent warning stating the exact percentage of their accounts which lose money (often >75%). The gambling ads don't have to tell you the real odds of coming out ahead. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM_zuudkSnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM_zuudkSnY
stego-tech 2y ago
I think a fair and reasonable advertisement policy is to ban all advertisements during "children's programming hours", or 0800 to 1600 when school is not in session. During "Prime Time" hours of 0500-0800 and 1600-2300, adverts should be limited to luxury goods (e.g., fashion), government PSAs, and non-addictive goods or services (NO drugs, NO tobacco, NO gambling, and NO stock trading, to name but a few). Between 2300 and 0400, allow "free reign" on subscription channels but still bar "vice" or addiction ads. We've got a century of data showing laissez-faire approaches to advertising results in maximum harm to a society, and ample recent data from the internet age showing how dark patterns in psychology are exploited by advertisers to drive outcomes. We have to do better, and the UK's step is at least an attempt to stem the harm. I can't fault entities from at least trying to do better.
- chgs 2y ago
  Daytime tv is all about brainwashing wealthy retired people. Still not as bad as those weird country which advertise prescription medicine
- alexchamberlain 2y ago
  I wonder what proportion of children are still watching mainstream TV? My son (4) mainly watches Disney+ and Netflix.
  - fn-mote 2y ago
    Choosing streaming services will be correlated to income. Netflix (medium $) and Disney+ (high $$). The less wealthy are watching YouTube with ads included.
- lmm 2y ago
  Children are the people least able to destroy their own lives through spending, so that feels pretty backwards. I think it's generally accepted that people who grow up around e.g. alcohol tend to have a healthier relationship with it than people who are suddenly exposed to it as an adult.
  - BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
    But they are among the most impressionable and it is effective to target the parents via kids nagging them.
- BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
  Add to your list to ban medical advertisement to the vice and addiction bar. Do you feel like your knee itches sometime? You may have BSitis, ask your doctor if our product is right for you... Replace all these with a generic, if you feel sick, go see a doctor, that's what they are for if needed.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
iamacyborg 2y ago
Wait until you hear about how CFD trading is legal in large parts of the world.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Is the payout on a CFD the same as a future or forward?
datavirtue 2y ago
Irrelevant. Stocks are a share of a company. The have book value and intrinsic value. Freedom to buy and sell is essential. Of course, crypto speculation is something different altogether. Maybe you were thinking about all the poor schleps buying Bitcoin for $100k? Even then, your chances of winning are around 50/50 and no one is forcing you to cash out.
hermitcrab 2y ago
There is an important difference. With stocks, the punter wins on average. With gambling, the punter loses on average. You can still lose all your money on stocks, with a combination of bad choices and bad luck. But it is much easier to lose it on the horses.
- shric 2y ago
  The punter does not win on average with stocks due to fees and spread.
  - hermitcrab 2y ago
    IIRC average stock market returns have historically been around 7% per year. Index funds charge around 1% per year. My stock ISAs have gone up pretty much every year (after inflation and fees).
    - rfrey 2y ago
      Putting your money into an index fund is the exact opposite of what is being advertised, e.g. trading platforms optimized for day trading, complete with blinkenlighten and "learn to trade" mini courses teaching technical indicators and other voodoo nonsense.
      - hermitcrab 2y ago
        There is a reason they spend loads of money on ads trying to get you into day trading. ;0)
    - lmm 2y ago
      > Index funds charge around 1% per year. You're getting ripped off, you should be paying a small fraction of that.
      - hermitcrab 2y ago
        Vanguard UK charge 0.06% to 0.6% per year on their index funds: https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/all-products https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/all-product... Plus a 0.15% account fee: https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/fees-explained https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/fees-explai... Most others charge more.

jsheard 2y ago

I don't disagree, but stock trading ads are in some ways already more strictly regulated than gambling ads here. Gambling ads are required to have a vague "please gamble responsibly" statement, but ads for CFD trading platforms are required to have a prominent warning stating the exact percentage of their accounts which lose money (often >75%). The gambling ads don't have to tell you the real odds of coming out ahead. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM_zuudkSnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM_zuudkSnY

stego-tech 2y ago

I think a fair and reasonable advertisement policy is to ban all advertisements during "children's programming hours", or 0800 to 1600 when school is not in session. During "Prime Time" hours of 0500-0800 and 1600-2300, adverts should be limited to luxury goods (e.g., fashion), government PSAs, and non-addictive goods or services (NO drugs, NO tobacco, NO gambling, and NO stock trading, to name but a few). Between 2300 and 0400, allow "free reign" on subscription channels but still bar "vice" or addiction ads. We've got a century of data showing laissez-faire approaches to advertising results in maximum harm to a society, and ample recent data from the internet age showing how dark patterns in psychology are exploited by advertisers to drive outcomes. We have to do better, and the UK's step is at least an attempt to stem the harm. I can't fault entities from at least trying to do better.

chgs 2y ago
Daytime tv is all about brainwashing wealthy retired people. Still not as bad as those weird country which advertise prescription medicine
alexchamberlain 2y ago
I wonder what proportion of children are still watching mainstream TV? My son (4) mainly watches Disney+ and Netflix.
- fn-mote 2y ago
  Choosing streaming services will be correlated to income. Netflix (medium $) and Disney+ (high $$). The less wealthy are watching YouTube with ads included.
lmm 2y ago
Children are the people least able to destroy their own lives through spending, so that feels pretty backwards. I think it's generally accepted that people who grow up around e.g. alcohol tend to have a healthier relationship with it than people who are suddenly exposed to it as an adult.
- BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
  But they are among the most impressionable and it is effective to target the parents via kids nagging them.
BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
Add to your list to ban medical advertisement to the vice and addiction bar. Do you feel like your knee itches sometime? You may have BSitis, ask your doctor if our product is right for you... Replace all these with a generic, if you feel sick, go see a doctor, that's what they are for if needed.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

iamacyborg 2y ago

Wait until you hear about how CFD trading is legal in large parts of the world.

throwaway2037 2y ago
Is the payout on a CFD the same as a future or forward?

datavirtue 2y ago

Irrelevant. Stocks are a share of a company. The have book value and intrinsic value. Freedom to buy and sell is essential. Of course, crypto speculation is something different altogether. Maybe you were thinking about all the poor schleps buying Bitcoin for $100k? Even then, your chances of winning are around 50/50 and no one is forcing you to cash out.

hermitcrab 2y ago

There is an important difference. With stocks, the punter wins on average. With gambling, the punter loses on average. You can still lose all your money on stocks, with a combination of bad choices and bad luck. But it is much easier to lose it on the horses.

shric 2y ago
The punter does not win on average with stocks due to fees and spread.
- hermitcrab 2y ago
  IIRC average stock market returns have historically been around 7% per year. Index funds charge around 1% per year. My stock ISAs have gone up pretty much every year (after inflation and fees).
  - rfrey 2y ago
    Putting your money into an index fund is the exact opposite of what is being advertised, e.g. trading platforms optimized for day trading, complete with blinkenlighten and "learn to trade" mini courses teaching technical indicators and other voodoo nonsense.
    - hermitcrab 2y ago
      There is a reason they spend loads of money on ads trying to get you into day trading. ;0)
  - lmm 2y ago
    > Index funds charge around 1% per year. You're getting ripped off, you should be paying a small fraction of that.
    - hermitcrab 2y ago
      Vanguard UK charge 0.06% to 0.6% per year on their index funds: https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/all-products https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/all-product... Plus a 0.15% account fee: https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/fees-explained https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/fees-explai... Most others charge more.