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I find it highly annoying that these rather powerful handheld smartphone computers don't have decent port access for use with instrumentation, etc. A huge ran

I find it highly annoying that these rather powerful handheld smartphone computers don't have decent port access for use with instrumentation, etc. A huge range of features comes to mind from Geiger counters, oscilloscopes, sound level measurement, light intensity, etc , etc. The potential to expand the smartphone capability is enormous yet no manufacturer has tackled it. Why not? Why aren't there multiple USB ports? By now why don't all phones use USB-3? Why isn't there general purpose D/A and A/D ports/outputs for instrumentation? Why don't they include a GPIB-like bus to connect to things? Why can't we use the screen as an oscilloscope with a bandwidth of say 100MHz? Of course not everyone needs these features but the smartphone stands out as an ideal device for use in instrumentation and measurement and data collection (of the other kind). I find it amazing that no smartphone manufacturer has branched out into this field. Such potential and no one is servicing it. Phone manufacturers are missing out by not servicing this scientific/techie measurement market. Why, say, doesn't Fairphone provide a range of interchangeable ports/modules that can changed for different functions, to add additional sensors, etc.?

bud_davis 2y ago
< 100 customers, that's why... although i would buy one.
Kirby64 2y ago
> Why aren't there multiple USB ports? By now why don't all phones use USB-3? Why isn't there general purpose D/A and A/D ports/outputs for instrumentation? Why don't they include a GPIB-like bus to connect to things? Why can't we use the screen as an oscilloscope with a bandwidth of say 100MHz? Because the population of people that would actually use that functionality rounds to approximately 0. There do exist phones with multiple USB ports, and there do exist plenty of USB3 capable phones. Instrumentation and measurement is an extremely specialized field, and the number of people that would maybe find use out of it would quickly switch to a more useful interface for something like an oscilloscope. For your general purpose adc and dac, they already make one: it’s called a usb-c audio adapter.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  "Because the population of people that would actually use that functionality rounds to approximately 0." How can you say that, where are your figures/stats/evidence? For starters I'm 1 person, so the market is not O. And I know of others, and I know I'm not alone. Clearly you don't work in test and measurement. Moreover, this article alone has raised the matter of additional features. Anyway, it's only a matter of time until some (likely small) manufacturer breaks the boring mold and steps out. That's inevitable because the market is already saturated with phones that all have exactly the same features.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    > For starters I'm 1 person, so the market is not O. And I know of others, and I know I'm not alone. Clearly you don't work in test and measurement. I said approximately 0, when compared to smartphone sales… which it is. I don’t need a survey to know that, since the vast vast vast majority of people using phones don’t even know what an oscilloscope, a DAC, or an ADC is. If you think that’s untrue, I’d suggest widening your horizons a bit. Also, I’d think that you don’t work in test and measurement. I use test equipment in my day job and I wouldn’t trust the output of a phone if I’m doing actual production work. You need calibrated equipment for that. Maybe okay for debugging, but there’s tons of cheap measurement equipment that works just fine for general purpose debugging and has a much better UI than anything you’d get on a touch screen.
    - tanewishly 2y ago
      To expand upon that point: a new feature for smartphones that really takes off has to fall in one of two categories: 1. so incredibly convenient to always have with you, that everyone's willing to overlook shortcomings compared to dedicated equipment. Prime example: camera. 2. Offer a new type of use that is widely considered desirable. Example: mobile access to Internet. Most use cases either cater to too few people and/or fall into the category "those who'd really care, already have dedicated equipment which is better". With flagship phones costing more and more, that equipment is probably also cheaper - or, at least, is price tag is not that outlandish. Even replacing laptops probably won't catch on, simply because companies can easily provide a good laptop for half the price of a flagship phone (if not less). So they're not going to facilitate that. And if the boss isn't on board, would you want to use your own private phone as your primary work laptop?
Nursie 2y ago
Motorola did a sort of add-on thing with their Moto Z some years back. It had swappable back-plates. They launched an extended battery, a speaker, a camera with larger optics and mechanical zoom, a projector attachment... some sort of amazon-branded smart-speaker attachment... they were supposed to kick off an add-on ecosystem but I guess it turned out most people weren't really bothered. Not quite what you're asking for, it wasn't standard bus connectors or anything.
timonoko 2y ago
My Ulefone has TWO. And the other one is heavy-duty industrial type connector. As luck may have it, I redesigned that connector, because Aliexpress was not selling one without some instrument attached. https://github.com/timonoko/Ulefone-Usmart-connector https://github.com/timonoko/Ulefone-Usmart-connector
geokon 2y ago
just a guess, but I've noticed that most app development has concentrated around crossplatform frameworks/languages. If you're writing in JS or Dart or whatever you're not typically going to write a high performance app that has tight integration with an optional peripheral. As far as I understand the weird ART vs JVM difference also means Java libs are only sometimes going to work (would love to be corrected here though)
jakub_g 2y ago
Whoever I talk to those says "smartphones are damn too big", and yet no manufacturer produces reasonably-sized phones anymore, because it apparently "they wouldn't sell" / "market size too small". If this is too difficult, than your use case is orders of magnitude more difficult. Unfortunately everyone tries to sell to the same generic user, with very little actual space for differentiation targeting niches.
- david-gpu 2y ago
  People say want smaller phones that fit in their pockets -- myself included. But are they willing to accept the much lower battery life, the smaller text on the screen, and the reduced real estate on the screen? The smaller iPhones didn't sell well.
  - hilbert42 2y ago
    My solution is simple, I carry two phones a tiny dumb/feature phone for just phone calls and a smartphone for internet access. No one can phone me on my smartphone as it uses a data-only SIM so it's difficult for Google and others to make sense of the data they steal from me (even then they only receive data garbage for reasons I won't bother to mention here). It's hardly less convenient as the dumb phone is small enough to fit in my shirt pocket whereas the smartphone is in a trousers pocket.
boomskats 2y ago
I disagree. My phone supports UVC video input so I can plug my $25 standards compliant borescope into it, I can plug my standards compliant rme sound card into it for field recordings, and I have a bunch of input peripherals that just 'surprise work' with android now too. You should have a look at the GATT spec for bluetooth LE and the UART service. It has never been easier to build scientific devices that rely on your phone for compute. The thing is, I think we're actually at the point where it's cheaper/ more reliable/more predictable to stick an nrf52 chip into a peripheral than try to support a physical connection to your phone - I guess from a security standpoint as much as anything else. There are a _ton_ of scopes and stuff that sit in the prosumer space that leverage your phone. They're just not wired, and I think it makes sense for them not to be.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  "There are a _ton_ of scopes and stuff that sit in the prosumer space that leverage your phone" Models off phones with these features integrated please? Where can I find them on, say, GSMArena.com?
  - boomskats 2y ago
    I'm not quite sure what you're asking for. Phones that support Bluetooth LE?
    - hilbert42 2y ago
      Read my other replies, eg the one to david-gpu where I mention Fairphone options.
      - boomskats 2y ago
        Typically I wouldn't consider 'read my other replies to understand what I could be talking about' to be a valid or particularly respectful response when it comes to online discussion, but I've read through most of your comments here, and I still can't figure out what the argument you're trying to make is.
elzbardico 2y ago
For any professional interesting sensor use you'd want something that is certified by a trusted third-party. The costs from this easily would overcome any savings you did in hardware. And also a lot of professional equipment providers are going sort of this way, building portable devices around a OEM android phone.
hulitu 2y ago
> Why don't they include a GPIB-like bus to connect to things? I would _love_ a smartphone with a GPIB connector. Something like https://www.starte-e.net/product/ieee-488-gpib-cn24pin-metal-connector-cable/ https://www.starte-e.net/product/ieee-488-gpib-cn24pin-metal... /s

bud_davis 2y ago

< 100 customers, that's why... although i would buy one.

Kirby64 2y ago

> Why aren't there multiple USB ports? By now why don't all phones use USB-3? Why isn't there general purpose D/A and A/D ports/outputs for instrumentation? Why don't they include a GPIB-like bus to connect to things? Why can't we use the screen as an oscilloscope with a bandwidth of say 100MHz? Because the population of people that would actually use that functionality rounds to approximately 0. There do exist phones with multiple USB ports, and there do exist plenty of USB3 capable phones. Instrumentation and measurement is an extremely specialized field, and the number of people that would maybe find use out of it would quickly switch to a more useful interface for something like an oscilloscope. For your general purpose adc and dac, they already make one: it’s called a usb-c audio adapter.

hilbert42 2y ago
"Because the population of people that would actually use that functionality rounds to approximately 0." How can you say that, where are your figures/stats/evidence? For starters I'm 1 person, so the market is not O. And I know of others, and I know I'm not alone. Clearly you don't work in test and measurement. Moreover, this article alone has raised the matter of additional features. Anyway, it's only a matter of time until some (likely small) manufacturer breaks the boring mold and steps out. That's inevitable because the market is already saturated with phones that all have exactly the same features.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  > For starters I'm 1 person, so the market is not O. And I know of others, and I know I'm not alone. Clearly you don't work in test and measurement. I said approximately 0, when compared to smartphone sales… which it is. I don’t need a survey to know that, since the vast vast vast majority of people using phones don’t even know what an oscilloscope, a DAC, or an ADC is. If you think that’s untrue, I’d suggest widening your horizons a bit. Also, I’d think that you don’t work in test and measurement. I use test equipment in my day job and I wouldn’t trust the output of a phone if I’m doing actual production work. You need calibrated equipment for that. Maybe okay for debugging, but there’s tons of cheap measurement equipment that works just fine for general purpose debugging and has a much better UI than anything you’d get on a touch screen.
  - tanewishly 2y ago
    To expand upon that point: a new feature for smartphones that really takes off has to fall in one of two categories: 1. so incredibly convenient to always have with you, that everyone's willing to overlook shortcomings compared to dedicated equipment. Prime example: camera. 2. Offer a new type of use that is widely considered desirable. Example: mobile access to Internet. Most use cases either cater to too few people and/or fall into the category "those who'd really care, already have dedicated equipment which is better". With flagship phones costing more and more, that equipment is probably also cheaper - or, at least, is price tag is not that outlandish. Even replacing laptops probably won't catch on, simply because companies can easily provide a good laptop for half the price of a flagship phone (if not less). So they're not going to facilitate that. And if the boss isn't on board, would you want to use your own private phone as your primary work laptop?

Nursie 2y ago

Motorola did a sort of add-on thing with their Moto Z some years back. It had swappable back-plates. They launched an extended battery, a speaker, a camera with larger optics and mechanical zoom, a projector attachment... some sort of amazon-branded smart-speaker attachment... they were supposed to kick off an add-on ecosystem but I guess it turned out most people weren't really bothered. Not quite what you're asking for, it wasn't standard bus connectors or anything.

timonoko 2y ago

My Ulefone has TWO. And the other one is heavy-duty industrial type connector. As luck may have it, I redesigned that connector, because Aliexpress was not selling one without some instrument attached. https://github.com/timonoko/Ulefone-Usmart-connector https://github.com/timonoko/Ulefone-Usmart-connector

geokon 2y ago

just a guess, but I've noticed that most app development has concentrated around crossplatform frameworks/languages. If you're writing in JS or Dart or whatever you're not typically going to write a high performance app that has tight integration with an optional peripheral. As far as I understand the weird ART vs JVM difference also means Java libs are only sometimes going to work (would love to be corrected here though)

jakub_g 2y ago

Whoever I talk to those says "smartphones are damn too big", and yet no manufacturer produces reasonably-sized phones anymore, because it apparently "they wouldn't sell" / "market size too small". If this is too difficult, than your use case is orders of magnitude more difficult. Unfortunately everyone tries to sell to the same generic user, with very little actual space for differentiation targeting niches.

david-gpu 2y ago
People say want smaller phones that fit in their pockets -- myself included. But are they willing to accept the much lower battery life, the smaller text on the screen, and the reduced real estate on the screen? The smaller iPhones didn't sell well.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  My solution is simple, I carry two phones a tiny dumb/feature phone for just phone calls and a smartphone for internet access. No one can phone me on my smartphone as it uses a data-only SIM so it's difficult for Google and others to make sense of the data they steal from me (even then they only receive data garbage for reasons I won't bother to mention here). It's hardly less convenient as the dumb phone is small enough to fit in my shirt pocket whereas the smartphone is in a trousers pocket.

boomskats 2y ago

I disagree. My phone supports UVC video input so I can plug my $25 standards compliant borescope into it, I can plug my standards compliant rme sound card into it for field recordings, and I have a bunch of input peripherals that just 'surprise work' with android now too. You should have a look at the GATT spec for bluetooth LE and the UART service. It has never been easier to build scientific devices that rely on your phone for compute. The thing is, I think we're actually at the point where it's cheaper/ more reliable/more predictable to stick an nrf52 chip into a peripheral than try to support a physical connection to your phone - I guess from a security standpoint as much as anything else. There are a _ton_ of scopes and stuff that sit in the prosumer space that leverage your phone. They're just not wired, and I think it makes sense for them not to be.

hilbert42 2y ago
"There are a _ton_ of scopes and stuff that sit in the prosumer space that leverage your phone" Models off phones with these features integrated please? Where can I find them on, say, GSMArena.com?
- boomskats 2y ago
  I'm not quite sure what you're asking for. Phones that support Bluetooth LE?
  - hilbert42 2y ago
    Read my other replies, eg the one to david-gpu where I mention Fairphone options.
    - boomskats 2y ago
      Typically I wouldn't consider 'read my other replies to understand what I could be talking about' to be a valid or particularly respectful response when it comes to online discussion, but I've read through most of your comments here, and I still can't figure out what the argument you're trying to make is.

elzbardico 2y ago

For any professional interesting sensor use you'd want something that is certified by a trusted third-party. The costs from this easily would overcome any savings you did in hardware. And also a lot of professional equipment providers are going sort of this way, building portable devices around a OEM android phone.

hulitu 2y ago

> Why don't they include a GPIB-like bus to connect to things? I would _love_ a smartphone with a GPIB connector. Something like https://www.starte-e.net/product/ieee-488-gpib-cn24pin-metal-connector-cable/ https://www.starte-e.net/product/ieee-488-gpib-cn24pin-metal... /s