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From my understanding the underlying issue is purely geopolitical, neither side gives a shit about the historical reasons and it's mostly being used as propagan

by Onavo 2y ago

From my understanding the underlying issue is purely geopolitical, neither side gives a shit about the historical reasons and it's mostly being used as propaganda material and a cudgel against each other. Maybe a Japanese/Chinese speaker should comment but from speaking to them, they seem to have no qualms about traveling to either country for tourism.

cowpig 2y ago
> neither side gives a shit about the historical reasons this goes directly against my understanding and also against all of my anecdotal experiences for example, people I know who lived in China described to me that bad guys in TV shows are often Japanese war criminals
- baq 2y ago
  The people perhaps, but the governments do it because it works, not because they give a shit. You’re agreeing with the post even if you think you aren’t.
  - cowpig 2y ago
    I am understanding your disagreement as some form of "governments act rationally in pursuit of state goals and not because of grudges" -- is that right? If so, I am not sure I agree that governments act in a uniform manner; they are comprised of many individual actors who act within the bounds of some system that's influenced by a number of competing factors. I also don't agree that governments are rational or divorced from the emotions of the people who comprise them nor the populations they administer. If I completely misunderstood your view please let me know :)
    - baq 2y ago
      You understood perfectly. Yes they do hold grudges, but primarily are cynical, not stupid at all and at least semi-rational.
qwezxcrty 2y ago
As a Chinese speaker I agree that the historic problems are indeed heavily weaponized in the patriotic propaganda, and I don't care about these at all personally. However, there are people that do care much more about these, in particular in the older generation from my personal experience. Probably the propaganda was more effective before China's opening up. In addition, Japan also have some conflicts from historical reasons with South Korean, which is an ally to Japan (and to the US).

by Onavo 2y ago

cowpig 2y ago

> neither side gives a shit about the historical reasons this goes directly against my understanding and also against all of my anecdotal experiences for example, people I know who lived in China described to me that bad guys in TV shows are often Japanese war criminals

baq 2y ago
The people perhaps, but the governments do it because it works, not because they give a shit. You’re agreeing with the post even if you think you aren’t.
- cowpig 2y ago
  I am understanding your disagreement as some form of "governments act rationally in pursuit of state goals and not because of grudges" -- is that right? If so, I am not sure I agree that governments act in a uniform manner; they are comprised of many individual actors who act within the bounds of some system that's influenced by a number of competing factors. I also don't agree that governments are rational or divorced from the emotions of the people who comprise them nor the populations they administer. If I completely misunderstood your view please let me know :)
  - baq 2y ago
    You understood perfectly. Yes they do hold grudges, but primarily are cynical, not stupid at all and at least semi-rational.

qwezxcrty 2y ago

As a Chinese speaker I agree that the historic problems are indeed heavily weaponized in the patriotic propaganda, and I don't care about these at all personally. However, there are people that do care much more about these, in particular in the older generation from my personal experience. Probably the propaganda was more effective before China's opening up. In addition, Japan also have some conflicts from historical reasons with South Korean, which is an ally to Japan (and to the US).