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> In a bombshell accusation, This accusation is only a bombshell if you lived under a rock for the past decades. I have to admit that I have never been to Japa
by huijzer 2y ago
> In a bombshell accusation,
This accusation is only a bombshell if you lived under a rock for the past decades. I have to admit that I have never been to Japan nor that I am a Japan or China expert, but I don’t read much positive things on their relationship.
China says Japan should admit their wartime crimes when they invaded China, and Japan says China should stop conducting assertive actions especially in the East China Sea. According to one poll, the country with the most negative view of China is Japan [1]. Chinese citizen have a similar negative view of Japan [2]. Still, both countries do trade a lot which I don’t understand. I’m curious if anyone here knows more about this.
[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_sentiment_in_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_sentiment_in_Ja...
[2]: https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/15534487 https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/15534487
- Onavo 2y agoFrom my understanding the underlying issue is purely geopolitical, neither side gives a shit about the historical reasons and it's mostly being used as propaganda material and a cudgel against each other. Maybe a Japanese/Chinese speaker should comment but from speaking to them, they seem to have no qualms about traveling to either country for tourism.
- cowpig 2y ago> neither side gives a shit about the historical reasons this goes directly against my understanding and also against all of my anecdotal experiences for example, people I know who lived in China described to me that bad guys in TV shows are often Japanese war criminals
- baq 2y agoThe people perhaps, but the governments do it because it works, not because they give a shit. You’re agreeing with the post even if you think you aren’t.
- cowpig 2y agoI am understanding your disagreement as some form of "governments act rationally in pursuit of state goals and not because of grudges" -- is that right? If so, I am not sure I agree that governments act in a uniform manner; they are comprised of many individual actors who act within the bounds of some system that's influenced by a number of competing factors. I also don't agree that governments are rational or divorced from the emotions of the people who comprise them nor the populations they administer. If I completely misunderstood your view please let me know :)
- baq 2y agoYou understood perfectly. Yes they do hold grudges, but primarily are cynical, not stupid at all and at least semi-rational.
- qwezxcrty 2y agoAs a Chinese speaker I agree that the historic problems are indeed heavily weaponized in the patriotic propaganda, and I don't care about these at all personally. However, there are people that do care much more about these, in particular in the older generation from my personal experience. Probably the propaganda was more effective before China's opening up. In addition, Japan also have some conflicts from historical reasons with South Korean, which is an ally to Japan (and to the US).
- resoluteteeth 2y ago> This accusation is only a bombshell if you lived under a rock for the past decades This logic seems slightly strange to me. If it turned out that, for example, Harvard University was pulling some sort of html trick to attempt to block black students from applying, would that not be a bombshell because racism against black people is already known to exist in the United states?
- kccqzy 2y agoRacism is perhaps not the right term. Xenophobia is a better term. A lot of Japanese people and Chinese people who have never left their respective countries have a dim view of all foreigners. Both countries are also well known for being extremely difficult to immigrate to.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- gruez 2y agoHarvard is ostensibly anti-racist, and I think the implication is that japan/chinese is actively racist against each other, so it's not surprising.
- nyolfen 2y agoit would be more like blocking students from nigeria from applying during a period of historical tension between the US and Nigerian governments. there are a huge number of chinese individuals in other countries that did not face any filtering.
- layer8 2y ago> Still, both countries do trade a lot which I don’t understand. What’s there not to understand? It makes money.
- m3kw9 2y agoThe citizens mostly don’t gaf, they love Japan as a tourist destination. All is forgotten once they get the first sip of ramen soup when they arrive
- tehjoker 2y agoto be clear, Japan killed millions of chinese citizens and started a biological weapons laboratory with gruesome human experiments near harbin (unit 731 commanded by gen. ishii). it is likely these medical and scientific results were given to the US to avoid trial of 731 members at the tokyo tribunal. imperial japan was like the nazis. japan complaining about naval maneuvers pales in comparison. imperialists often continue to harbor resentment of those they attacked and lost against. china is supposed to be a subject, not an equal in their minds.
- Teever 2y agoIf Germany, France, Britian, and Poland can become allies and tightly integrated economic partners with open boarders after that exact same conflict why can't Japan and China do the same?
- baq 2y agoChina does not do alliances in that sense. China has a century-long (or even longer) world domination plan which it methodically realizes and are on a demographic clock to get it done. As a non-China country, you’re either a tool or an obstacle; never an ally.
- __turbobrew__ 2y agoChina and Japan have vastly different political systems. You have to remember that East Germany and Poland were both communist governments up until quite recently and during that time they were not allies with Germany and France. The USA also brokered peace in Europe by providing military security and access to the largest free trade market in the world. It was a pretty good deal for European countries. This may be pure speculation, but it also appears that China and Japan are culturally further apart than European countries.
- rat87 2y agoJapanese war crimes are in the past. They are real and significant. You could claim the apologies Japan offered to China are undermined by incidents of nationalists denying the crimes(compare to Germany's apologies which are often considered to be among the better ones) or the reparations offered were not enough(china turned them down). I think that can be debated. But Japan isn't doing anything today. Japan is for all of its faults a liberal democratic country with no interest in conquering anyone. China is an authoritarian dictatorship getting worse (under the later years of Xi) and threatening imperialist actions especially against the independent nation of Taiwan(some parallels to Russia getting worse under later years of Putin and starting an imperialist war against Ukraine).