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>But also horrifying that treatment costs so much. My mother underwent chemotherapy for her cancer. According to the statements from her insurance company, ea

>But also horrifying that treatment costs so much. My mother underwent chemotherapy for her cancer. According to the statements from her insurance company, each round of chemotherapy cost as much as a new luxury car before hospital vs. insurance negotiations. Yeah. The value of health insurance isn't just the offloading of expenses, it's also their power to tell hospitals to get fucking bent with ludicrous bills.

Hemospectrum 2y ago
Health insurance price negotiation is the primary reason those prices are so high in the first place. An insurance company gets to say it negotiated a 99% discount (or whatever) and the hospitals and pharmaceutical companies still charge prices high enough to turn a comfortable profit. It's a lot like "Black Friday" sales where retailers jack up their shelf prices in the preceding days and weeks so they can mark them down and persuade the customers they're getting attractive deals.
spondylosaurus 2y ago
To be fair to hospitals, some of those bills are ludicrous because of insurance. If they know that insurers will only ever pay 10% of the listed cost, they'll make the listed cost seem a lot bigger so that that 10% payout is comparatively bigger too.
ANewFormation 2y ago
Insurance companies have a motivation to see high healthcare costs - it justifies higher premiums, and in a broken 'public' healthcare system that entrenches insurance middlemen, and subsidizes their costs for those unable to afford them, you're just going to see costs skyrocket endlessly. Public healthcare, of any sort, should not involve working with third party insurance companies. In any case, this is also why medical tourism is a thing - you could go get the exact same treatment, to completion, half way around for far less than what you the cost you were quoted for a single round in the US - including housing and other costs.
cogman10 2y ago
The health industry is what's wrong with a captured market and few players. Every party is trying to extract maximum value for minimum input. That leads hospitals to 1000x every treatment price so when insurance companies come to negotiate they can negotiate down to 100x. It causes hospitals to understaff because is cheaper to pay for legal staff to handle malpractice claims than it is to not work your nurses and doctors to death. It causes drug companies consolidate and then charge through the nose for drugs that cost them pennies to manufacturer (for example, penicillin or insulin) drugs that, everyone should be aware, all of the R&D and FDA approval has been done. The most expensive part of drug development is done. There are solutions. It's regulations. Hospitals regulated to minimal coverage. Drug/hospitals hit with anti price gouging regulations. Insurance companies hit with coverage regulations. That's all something doable and probably with enough political will to be done. An even better idea is simply nationalizing medicine, top to bottom. That's unlikely to happen, but would result in the biggest drop in healthcare costs.
- cute_boi 2y ago
  Well, there are many solutions but none of them works because politicians are in bed with insurace/hospitals/pharmacy.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >An even better idea is simply nationalizing medicine, top to bottom. That's unlikely to happen, but would result in the biggest drop in healthcare costs. In the immortal words of President Ronald Reagan: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Which is to say, no. Obviously this is a long-brewing problem in need of a solution, but more government is not it.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    Destruction of government is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place. Reagan, Clinton, and Obama are each to blame for the current state of American healthcare. Every semi functioning healthcare system has more government involvement than what the US does. Reagan was wrong.

Hemospectrum 2y ago

Health insurance price negotiation is the primary reason those prices are so high in the first place. An insurance company gets to say it negotiated a 99% discount (or whatever) and the hospitals and pharmaceutical companies still charge prices high enough to turn a comfortable profit. It's a lot like "Black Friday" sales where retailers jack up their shelf prices in the preceding days and weeks so they can mark them down and persuade the customers they're getting attractive deals.

spondylosaurus 2y ago

To be fair to hospitals, some of those bills are ludicrous because of insurance. If they know that insurers will only ever pay 10% of the listed cost, they'll make the listed cost seem a lot bigger so that that 10% payout is comparatively bigger too.

ANewFormation 2y ago

Insurance companies have a motivation to see high healthcare costs - it justifies higher premiums, and in a broken 'public' healthcare system that entrenches insurance middlemen, and subsidizes their costs for those unable to afford them, you're just going to see costs skyrocket endlessly. Public healthcare, of any sort, should not involve working with third party insurance companies. In any case, this is also why medical tourism is a thing - you could go get the exact same treatment, to completion, half way around for far less than what you the cost you were quoted for a single round in the US - including housing and other costs.

cogman10 2y ago

The health industry is what's wrong with a captured market and few players. Every party is trying to extract maximum value for minimum input. That leads hospitals to 1000x every treatment price so when insurance companies come to negotiate they can negotiate down to 100x. It causes hospitals to understaff because is cheaper to pay for legal staff to handle malpractice claims than it is to not work your nurses and doctors to death. It causes drug companies consolidate and then charge through the nose for drugs that cost them pennies to manufacturer (for example, penicillin or insulin) drugs that, everyone should be aware, all of the R&D and FDA approval has been done. The most expensive part of drug development is done. There are solutions. It's regulations. Hospitals regulated to minimal coverage. Drug/hospitals hit with anti price gouging regulations. Insurance companies hit with coverage regulations. That's all something doable and probably with enough political will to be done. An even better idea is simply nationalizing medicine, top to bottom. That's unlikely to happen, but would result in the biggest drop in healthcare costs.

cute_boi 2y ago
Well, there are many solutions but none of them works because politicians are in bed with insurace/hospitals/pharmacy.
Dalewyn 2y ago
>An even better idea is simply nationalizing medicine, top to bottom. That's unlikely to happen, but would result in the biggest drop in healthcare costs. In the immortal words of President Ronald Reagan: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Which is to say, no. Obviously this is a long-brewing problem in need of a solution, but more government is not it.
- cogman10 2y ago
  Destruction of government is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place. Reagan, Clinton, and Obama are each to blame for the current state of American healthcare. Every semi functioning healthcare system has more government involvement than what the US does. Reagan was wrong.