4 ms·

Unfortunately, organized labor in this country opposes the separation of employment and health insurance, so we will never be rid of it.

by smt88 2y ago

gaganyaan 2y ago
Do you have any references on that? Anyone I know that wants separation of employment and health insurance is also very pro-union.
- swed420 2y ago
  It's counterintuitive on the surface, but definitely a known phenomenon. We saw it in recent years during Bernie's campaigns: https://jacobin.com/2020/02/nevada-culinary-union-unite-here-sanders https://jacobin.com/2020/02/nevada-culinary-union-unite-here... Unions are an often necessary hack to overcome some of capitalism's worst baked-in contradictions, but unfortunately they often bring their own set of complications. It seems like we should instead step back and go to the real source of the problem: capitalism https://jacobin.com/2019/03/sam-gindin-socialist-planning-models https://jacobin.com/2019/03/sam-gindin-socialist-planning-mo...
- smt88 2y ago
  > Do you have any references on that? - https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-12-23/why-some-unions-are-nervous-about-medicare-for-all https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-12-23/why-some-u... - https://jacobin.com/2018/06/medicare-for-all-health-care-unions https://jacobin.com/2018/06/medicare-for-all-health-care-uni... - https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2020/01/why-would-a-union-oppose-medicare-for-all https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2020/01/why-would-a-unio... - https://archive.thinkprogress.org/what-unions-think-about-medicare-for-all-2cffd87d7814/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/what-unions-think-about-me... Obviously it's not every union and they have different degrees of support or opposition. But Democrats won't pass any major health-care bill without the support of all the largest unions, and they're never getting that, especially as many unions are defecting to MAGAism now. > Anyone I know that wants separation of employment and health insurance is also very pro-union. Are they in labor unions? Or are they white-collar workers with college degrees who happen to support both of these things? As we saw in the last election, there can be a significant disconnect between union members' views and the official unions themselves.
wrp 2y ago
I saw an interview many years ago with some American historian (of the labor movement?) who argued that establishing universal health care was on the table in the 1950s, but the unions opposed it because health care was the prime benefit they used to attract people to union membership. Wish I could remember the name of that historian.
danaris 2y ago
The sane way to separate them is single-payer health care anyway, and AFAIK unions generally support that.
- smt88 2y ago
  They do not generally support it because it means they'd have to give up something they fought hard to get at the bargaining table: https://archive.thinkprogress.org/what-unions-think-about-medicare-for-all-2cffd87d7814/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/what-unions-think-about-me... Some definitely support it, but many big unions don't.

Unfortunately, organized labor in this country opposes the separation of employment and health insurance, so we will never be rid of it.

by smt88 2y ago

Unfortunately, organized labor in this country opposes the separation of employment and health insurance, so we will never be rid of it.

gaganyaan 2y ago

Do you have any references on that? Anyone I know that wants separation of employment and health insurance is also very pro-union.

swed420 2y ago
It's counterintuitive on the surface, but definitely a known phenomenon. We saw it in recent years during Bernie's campaigns: https://jacobin.com/2020/02/nevada-culinary-union-unite-here-sanders https://jacobin.com/2020/02/nevada-culinary-union-unite-here... Unions are an often necessary hack to overcome some of capitalism's worst baked-in contradictions, but unfortunately they often bring their own set of complications. It seems like we should instead step back and go to the real source of the problem: capitalism https://jacobin.com/2019/03/sam-gindin-socialist-planning-models https://jacobin.com/2019/03/sam-gindin-socialist-planning-mo...
smt88 2y ago
> Do you have any references on that? - https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-12-23/why-some-unions-are-nervous-about-medicare-for-all https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-12-23/why-some-u... - https://jacobin.com/2018/06/medicare-for-all-health-care-unions https://jacobin.com/2018/06/medicare-for-all-health-care-uni... - https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2020/01/why-would-a-union-oppose-medicare-for-all https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2020/01/why-would-a-unio... - https://archive.thinkprogress.org/what-unions-think-about-medicare-for-all-2cffd87d7814/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/what-unions-think-about-me... Obviously it's not every union and they have different degrees of support or opposition. But Democrats won't pass any major health-care bill without the support of all the largest unions, and they're never getting that, especially as many unions are defecting to MAGAism now. > Anyone I know that wants separation of employment and health insurance is also very pro-union. Are they in labor unions? Or are they white-collar workers with college degrees who happen to support both of these things? As we saw in the last election, there can be a significant disconnect between union members' views and the official unions themselves.

wrp 2y ago

I saw an interview many years ago with some American historian (of the labor movement?) who argued that establishing universal health care was on the table in the 1950s, but the unions opposed it because health care was the prime benefit they used to attract people to union membership. Wish I could remember the name of that historian.

danaris 2y ago

The sane way to separate them is single-payer health care anyway, and AFAIK unions generally support that.

smt88 2y ago
They do not generally support it because it means they'd have to give up something they fought hard to get at the bargaining table: https://archive.thinkprogress.org/what-unions-think-about-medicare-for-all-2cffd87d7814/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/what-unions-think-about-me... Some definitely support it, but many big unions don't.