5 ms·

I don't see it as fanboyism so much as a reaction to irrational anti-Apple complaints such as "this feature doesn't work therefore I'm not going to buy any Appl

by epo 14y ago

I don't see it as fanboyism so much as a reaction to irrational anti-Apple complaints such as "this feature doesn't work therefore I'm not going to buy any Apple product ever again". Yes, it's a bug. No, it's not a show stopper, and yes there is a perfectly reasonable work around. So the blind people are those who try to blow this up into some kind of crime against humanity and who then call those telling them to get a grip, "fanboys".

geon 14y ago
> Yes, it's a bug. No, it's not a bug. A bug would be something not working as intended. This clearly works just as intended, since some fullscreen apps apparently can use the extra monitor for secondary windows. It just isn't a very good feature if you have multiple monitors. Personally, I'd love it to work on my dual monitors. It's not a bug, it's a missing feature.
- zbowling 14y ago
  It's a regression on an existing feature. Regression = bug.
  - geon 14y ago
    Did it work with one app per monitor at some point? Otherwise it's not a regression. Full screen mode lets a single app use all your screen area. That is the feature. That you wish it to work differently does not make it a bug. It's just a sucky solution for multi monitor setups.
    - zbowling 14y ago
      Yes, it did. iTunes, Quicktime, Final Cut (the old one)... each had a fullscreen mode that worked on single monitor mode.
      - geon 14y ago
        Wasn't that a completely diffrent thing, not governed by the OS, but implemented by each app independently and not wit the side-swipe app swiching?
ojbyrne 14y ago
I'm curious what the perfectly reasonable work around is. Does it let me run 2 apps full-screen on 2 monitors (something Windows does without any issues whatsoever)?
- epo 14y ago
  Drag out the windows by hand to as large as you like, good enough.
  - glhaynes 14y ago
    This is downvoted, but I think there's some smartness to it. My experience with the Mac is that apps for it are more often geared to work in not-full-screen windows; my personal hypothesis (with absolutely no documentation or backing) is that more Windows apps are most comfortable to use when maximized (and thus many new-from-Windows users look for a maximization button) because of MS-DOS' full-screen ancestry. In support of this unsupported theory: many more Mac apps seem to look silly when resized to unexpectedly large dimensions than do Windows apps. Full-screen apps in Lion are a bit of a different thing because they exist in a conceptually separate place from "maximized" windows — they are to the side of the desktop, not on top of it.
- masklinn 14y ago
  The one and only workaround is "don't use fullscreen mode" so it definitely isn't going to let you run 2 apps full-screen because it's not going to let you run any application alongside a fullscreen one in the first place. > something Windows does without any issues whatsoever That is not entirely true, depending how the fullscreened application is coded interacting with the other one may e.g. make the windows toolbar reappear, or (very common for games) minimize the fullscreen application.
  - freehunter 14y ago
    I really wish Windows apps had more consistency in their fullscreen behavior. Sometimes they bring up the taskbar, sometimes they behave like normal windows, sometimes they don't even let you scroll off the side anyway. This last behavior is most annoying in strategy games when I'm scrolling the map and have to use the arrow keys for one of the directions, but equally annoying in some FPS games where the cursor scrolls off the side but still behaves normally until you click to fire and then the application loses focus. I'm not even a Mac user but I would take a consistent but irritating behavior over an inconsistent and also irritating behavior. It's more inconvenient to have to disable my second monitor while I'm playing a game.
dguaraglia 14y ago
I don't see the author anywhere saying he won't buy a new Apple product ever again? Am I missing something?
tolmasky 14y ago
This is not just a bug in some feature that used to not exist, this is a regression that Apple took upon themselves completely consciously. "Full screening" existed before Lion. It worked fine. You could for example run Quicktime or iTunes full-screend in one monitor and do work on another. Then, in Lion, solely to be able to market it as a new feature, they tweaked it to conflate full-screening with spaces and broke the feature for many people that had been happily using it for over 5 years. They could have just added the existing full-screen behavior to the iLife and iWork apps and things would have been fine. They didn't. It is clear that Apple knew they were going to break this feature for people, and did it anyways. (For example Quicktime used to have an option in preferences whether to black out the other screen or leave it usable, this preference was removed in Lion -- someone literally went in and deleted functioning and better code -- this was not some "whoops" mistake). On top of this, what is particularly infuriating about this is that it hurts the people that have invested heavily into Apple by purchasing more than one monitor, many times expensive Apple monitors. It is completely acceptable and expected for people to get angry about regressing their monitors' abilities. Maybe its not a show-stopper for you, but for people who have spent a lot of money purchasing monitors, and had an existing workflow that functioned for YEARS, to all of a sudden lose it to a paid upgrade is 100% what I would call a show-stopper. Especially because it has been a year now and it is clear Apple just doesn't care about this. "Well Apple is just more focused on the single screen experience now and you're just not important anymore". Bullshit. They repeatedly advertise, and continue to advertise the expanded capabilities of, multiple monitors: http://www.apple.com/displays/ http://www.apple.com/displays/. The Air + Secondary Display is widely used, and most the laptops now support more than one external monitor. Thunderbolt even added daisy-chaining of monitors. This adds to the absurdity and schizophrenic nature of the issue: many pros use multiple monitor setups, and yet Apple went into the pro apps and degraded them to now only work with one monitor in full screen mode. Of course, this shouldn't be surprising, its really a microcosm of the entire Lion release: very little to no new functionality and instead unneeded "tweaking" of existing behavior. We paid to have our scrollbars made to look like iOS and have everyone learn to "reverse" their scrolling, for Safari to perform the worst its ever performed (I don't think I know anyone who uses it anymore), and to have full screen broken.
- laacz 14y ago
epo 14y ago
This whole thread is a perfect example of irrational anti-Apple hatred. There is no news here, the thread being referenced is over a year old and the most recent page is splendidly off-topic. So bringing it up now is nothing more than a pre-pubescent "look, here is Apple being sucky" whine.
tikhonj 14y ago
And those complaints are, in turn, a response to overwhelming pro-Apple advocacy. It seems people are content claiming that Apple makes the best software that is clearly superior to Windows and Linux(!), and then surprised when others point out glaring deficiencies in OS X. I always see such complaints not as "wow, OS X is completely unusable" but as "wow, OS X is not better than (Windows|Linux)". It's no crime against humanity to make a mediocre operating system--just don't go around claiming that it is by far the best!

by epo 14y ago

geon 14y ago

> Yes, it's a bug. No, it's not a bug. A bug would be something not working as intended. This clearly works just as intended, since some fullscreen apps apparently can use the extra monitor for secondary windows. It just isn't a very good feature if you have multiple monitors. Personally, I'd love it to work on my dual monitors. It's not a bug, it's a missing feature.

zbowling 14y ago
It's a regression on an existing feature. Regression = bug.
- geon 14y ago
  Did it work with one app per monitor at some point? Otherwise it's not a regression. Full screen mode lets a single app use all your screen area. That is the feature. That you wish it to work differently does not make it a bug. It's just a sucky solution for multi monitor setups.
  - zbowling 14y ago
    Yes, it did. iTunes, Quicktime, Final Cut (the old one)... each had a fullscreen mode that worked on single monitor mode.
    - geon 14y ago
      Wasn't that a completely diffrent thing, not governed by the OS, but implemented by each app independently and not wit the side-swipe app swiching?

ojbyrne 14y ago

I'm curious what the perfectly reasonable work around is. Does it let me run 2 apps full-screen on 2 monitors (something Windows does without any issues whatsoever)?

epo 14y ago
Drag out the windows by hand to as large as you like, good enough.
- glhaynes 14y ago
  This is downvoted, but I think there's some smartness to it. My experience with the Mac is that apps for it are more often geared to work in not-full-screen windows; my personal hypothesis (with absolutely no documentation or backing) is that more Windows apps are most comfortable to use when maximized (and thus many new-from-Windows users look for a maximization button) because of MS-DOS' full-screen ancestry. In support of this unsupported theory: many more Mac apps seem to look silly when resized to unexpectedly large dimensions than do Windows apps. Full-screen apps in Lion are a bit of a different thing because they exist in a conceptually separate place from "maximized" windows — they are to the side of the desktop, not on top of it.
masklinn 14y ago
The one and only workaround is "don't use fullscreen mode" so it definitely isn't going to let you run 2 apps full-screen because it's not going to let you run any application alongside a fullscreen one in the first place. > something Windows does without any issues whatsoever That is not entirely true, depending how the fullscreened application is coded interacting with the other one may e.g. make the windows toolbar reappear, or (very common for games) minimize the fullscreen application.
- freehunter 14y ago
  I really wish Windows apps had more consistency in their fullscreen behavior. Sometimes they bring up the taskbar, sometimes they behave like normal windows, sometimes they don't even let you scroll off the side anyway. This last behavior is most annoying in strategy games when I'm scrolling the map and have to use the arrow keys for one of the directions, but equally annoying in some FPS games where the cursor scrolls off the side but still behaves normally until you click to fire and then the application loses focus. I'm not even a Mac user but I would take a consistent but irritating behavior over an inconsistent and also irritating behavior. It's more inconvenient to have to disable my second monitor while I'm playing a game.

dguaraglia 14y ago

I don't see the author anywhere saying he won't buy a new Apple product ever again? Am I missing something?

tolmasky 14y ago

This is not just a bug in some feature that used to not exist, this is a regression that Apple took upon themselves completely consciously. "Full screening" existed before Lion. It worked fine. You could for example run Quicktime or iTunes full-screend in one monitor and do work on another. Then, in Lion, solely to be able to market it as a new feature, they tweaked it to conflate full-screening with spaces and broke the feature for many people that had been happily using it for over 5 years. They could have just added the existing full-screen behavior to the iLife and iWork apps and things would have been fine. They didn't. It is clear that Apple knew they were going to break this feature for people, and did it anyways. (For example Quicktime used to have an option in preferences whether to black out the other screen or leave it usable, this preference was removed in Lion -- someone literally went in and deleted functioning and better code -- this was not some "whoops" mistake). On top of this, what is particularly infuriating about this is that it hurts the people that have invested heavily into Apple by purchasing more than one monitor, many times expensive Apple monitors. It is completely acceptable and expected for people to get angry about regressing their monitors' abilities. Maybe its not a show-stopper for you, but for people who have spent a lot of money purchasing monitors, and had an existing workflow that functioned for YEARS, to all of a sudden lose it to a paid upgrade is 100% what I would call a show-stopper. Especially because it has been a year now and it is clear Apple just doesn't care about this. "Well Apple is just more focused on the single screen experience now and you're just not important anymore". Bullshit. They repeatedly advertise, and continue to advertise the expanded capabilities of, multiple monitors: http://www.apple.com/displays/ http://www.apple.com/displays/. The Air + Secondary Display is widely used, and most the laptops now support more than one external monitor. Thunderbolt even added daisy-chaining of monitors. This adds to the absurdity and schizophrenic nature of the issue: many pros use multiple monitor setups, and yet Apple went into the pro apps and degraded them to now only work with one monitor in full screen mode. Of course, this shouldn't be surprising, its really a microcosm of the entire Lion release: very little to no new functionality and instead unneeded "tweaking" of existing behavior. We paid to have our scrollbars made to look like iOS and have everyone learn to "reverse" their scrolling, for Safari to perform the worst its ever performed (I don't think I know anyone who uses it anymore), and to have full screen broken.

laacz 14y ago

epo 14y ago

This whole thread is a perfect example of irrational anti-Apple hatred. There is no news here, the thread being referenced is over a year old and the most recent page is splendidly off-topic. So bringing it up now is nothing more than a pre-pubescent "look, here is Apple being sucky" whine.

tikhonj 14y ago

And those complaints are, in turn, a response to overwhelming pro-Apple advocacy. It seems people are content claiming that Apple makes the best software that is clearly superior to Windows and Linux(!), and then surprised when others point out glaring deficiencies in OS X. I always see such complaints not as "wow, OS X is completely unusable" but as "wow, OS X is not better than (Windows|Linux)". It's no crime against humanity to make a mediocre operating system--just don't go around claiming that it is by far the best!