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> We are the only creatures that can choose compassion over selfishness. You don't think orangutans or other intelligent apes can do this? There are lots of ex

> We are the only creatures that can choose compassion over selfishness. You don't think orangutans or other intelligent apes can do this? There are lots of experiments and anecdotes you'd have to explain away.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Yes, kinship theory is a real understanding of behavior, but the animals don't choose compassion over selfishness, they merely make an instinctive survival cost-benefit analysis in the moment. So it's not even a kind of thinking, as we human beings have a conscience and mind capable of abstract conceptual thought that allows us to weigh the morality of what we are considering, and then decide. Of course, having free will means that we can ignore our unique capabilities and behave as our built-in mammalian, pack-centric, dominance-seeking, body plans provide us out-of-the-box. The only thinking I have seen in the animal world involve primates and birds using tools, and dolphins using impressive hunting techniques, where the younger generations learn them from the older. Regardless, if they are thinking, they are very primitive.
- dl9999 2y ago
  How is it known or tested to verify that "animals don't choose compassion over selfishness, they merely make an instinctive survival cost-benefit analysis"? I'm not disputing it, but I've never understood how we can say definitively that animals are doing the same things we do, but they are doing it out of instinct.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    You have to verify yourself that this is a level that human beings can reach, should they connect with their Creator and ask (beg) to level-up and learn. My comments over the past few days explain it quite fully. The "evidence" I would suggest is that the only tool-making animals are some primates and birds, but I'm sure there are others. But that is not abstract thought and thoughful choosing. Their choosing is purely for survival benefit, including their partnering with humans.

MrMcCall 2y ago

Yes, kinship theory is a real understanding of behavior, but the animals don't choose compassion over selfishness, they merely make an instinctive survival cost-benefit analysis in the moment. So it's not even a kind of thinking, as we human beings have a conscience and mind capable of abstract conceptual thought that allows us to weigh the morality of what we are considering, and then decide. Of course, having free will means that we can ignore our unique capabilities and behave as our built-in mammalian, pack-centric, dominance-seeking, body plans provide us out-of-the-box. The only thinking I have seen in the animal world involve primates and birds using tools, and dolphins using impressive hunting techniques, where the younger generations learn them from the older. Regardless, if they are thinking, they are very primitive.

dl9999 2y ago
How is it known or tested to verify that "animals don't choose compassion over selfishness, they merely make an instinctive survival cost-benefit analysis"? I'm not disputing it, but I've never understood how we can say definitively that animals are doing the same things we do, but they are doing it out of instinct.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  You have to verify yourself that this is a level that human beings can reach, should they connect with their Creator and ask (beg) to level-up and learn. My comments over the past few days explain it quite fully. The "evidence" I would suggest is that the only tool-making animals are some primates and birds, but I'm sure there are others. But that is not abstract thought and thoughful choosing. Their choosing is purely for survival benefit, including their partnering with humans.