5 ms·

We are the only creatures that can choose compassion over selfishness. The rest of creation is on auto-pilot, guided by and incorporating the Creator's loving c

We are the only creatures that can choose compassion over selfishness. The rest of creation is on auto-pilot, guided by and incorporating the Creator's loving compassion for us in their every behavior. Our intelligence is not only on a far different order than theirs via our capability for abstract thought (not oft used, TBF), but we also have a moral compass (conscience) that tries to influence our behavior towards the selflessly compassionate and away from the selfishly callous. We can choose either, the free will being our real distinguishing feature and is the reason we have a conscience and access to mind. Ask your dog about their intelligence, and they will reply, "So long as you keep feeding me, I'll keep licking my everywhere, and then licking your face. So keep it coming, or I'll have to show you who the alpha is around heeerrrre."

kamma 2y ago
> The rest of creation is on auto-pilot, guided by and incorporating the Creator's loving compassion for us in their every behavior. Proof?
- uoaei 2y ago
  Peak HN comment, especially with that username...
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  You must seek and find that for yourself, my friend. "The Way goes in." --Rumi
kaashif 2y ago
> We are the only creatures that can choose compassion over selfishness. You don't think orangutans or other intelligent apes can do this? There are lots of experiments and anecdotes you'd have to explain away.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Yes, kinship theory is a real understanding of behavior, but the animals don't choose compassion over selfishness, they merely make an instinctive survival cost-benefit analysis in the moment. So it's not even a kind of thinking, as we human beings have a conscience and mind capable of abstract conceptual thought that allows us to weigh the morality of what we are considering, and then decide. Of course, having free will means that we can ignore our unique capabilities and behave as our built-in mammalian, pack-centric, dominance-seeking, body plans provide us out-of-the-box. The only thinking I have seen in the animal world involve primates and birds using tools, and dolphins using impressive hunting techniques, where the younger generations learn them from the older. Regardless, if they are thinking, they are very primitive.
  - dl9999 2y ago
    How is it known or tested to verify that "animals don't choose compassion over selfishness, they merely make an instinctive survival cost-benefit analysis"? I'm not disputing it, but I've never understood how we can say definitively that animals are doing the same things we do, but they are doing it out of instinct.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      You have to verify yourself that this is a level that human beings can reach, should they connect with their Creator and ask (beg) to level-up and learn. My comments over the past few days explain it quite fully. The "evidence" I would suggest is that the only tool-making animals are some primates and birds, but I'm sure there are others. But that is not abstract thought and thoughful choosing. Their choosing is purely for survival benefit, including their partnering with humans.
thebruce87m 2y ago
> The rest of creation is on auto-pilot, guided by and incorporating the Creator's loving compassion for us in their every behavior. From the gentle kiss of a bee sting, to the loving nibble of a shark bite.
- andrewflnr 2y ago
  Those are benign compared to some of the stuff parasites get up to.
  - thfuran 2y ago
    Let us not forget the loving embrace of N. Fowleri, whose presence shall always remain in our minds.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Yeah, they are instructive, no? The burnt hand and all that.
arghwhat 2y ago
> Ask your dog about their intelligence, and they will reply If your dog replies, you either have a truly exceptional dog with human-like vocal cords, or need to see a psychiatrist. That we are more intelligent is nothing more than an evolutionary decision - our ancestors decided to lead lifestyles where trading base energy consumption for higher mental capabilities made sense. Other creatures are not on auto-pilot, even if their thought process ranges from simpler to outright primitive. When dolphins endanger themselves to chase away sharks to save humans they go against instincts and self preservation (and thereby anything you'd consider autopilot). On the other hand, humans are the ones that have turned averse to danger and anything out of the ordinary, preferring to stick to "auto-pilot" for safety. In fact, I'd argue that the supposed response from your dog sounds quite like a human: as long as you keep paying me, I'll do the same mindless daily routine without question.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  I didn't say it would reply with words. And you should learn about the instinct of kinship theory, where worker ants and bees give up their ability to procreate and even live, for the benefit of the colony. Only we can choose such selfless compassion, after contemplating and understanding what we are giving and the costs we will likely incur.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    Ants and bees are not showing selflessness, they are showing strict hierarchy and chain of command. Entirely different concept. Not to mention that ants are very, very far from dogs, dolphins and humans. There is no reason to think that a dolphin would have to share their behavior, nor that a human wouldn't share their behavior - do people really choose to be selfless when they dedicate their life to a company, or are they just mindlessly following the march like the ants? There will be the occasional ant that doesn't do as told, leaving the question of where there are more humans or ants breaking showing independence and breaking out of rank. For reference, there exist many types of ants that have abandoned the normal ways of ant colonies. > I didn't say it would reply with words. It would be even more impressive if it managed to communicate without words - Telepathy is not exactly expected in dogs.
perching_aix 2y ago
> the Creator Who?
Etheryte 2y ago
I can see why you might believe that, but it's simply not true. There are countless well documented examples and scientific studies that show that animals exhibit all the traits you describe. Chimpanzees show compassion by consoling victims of aggression [0], being especially attentive to others with whom they have a closer bond. They have friends and relatives just like we do, they value those social structures just like we do, and they choose to give them emotional support, without getting anything in return. Rats try and free restrained cage mates [1] and share their food with them, even though from a selfish perspective it would be better for them to eat the food and not share. They understand the other is suffering and try to alleviate it, just like we do. Neural imaging on animals has shown that their brains both have the same features that ours do for these purposes and they use them in similar ways. All of this is not even remotely controversial, it's well understood and thoroughly studied across numerous decades. [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00302695 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00302695 [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22158823/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22158823/
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Of course animals exhibit teamwork, but they do not have a free will that can choose compassion in the face of its opposite, selfishness. You can note all the abstract thought that animals exhibit, perhaps some equations on a chalkboard?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - antasvara 2y ago
    My 1 year old can't write equations on a chalkboard. Despite that, she shows compassion and what if consider abstract thought. The issue that I think you're highlighting is that we can't map our measures of intelligence directly on to other animals. Animals can't write, so it wouldn't make sense to use a measure that requires writing when evaluating a fox or squirrel.
    - 2y ago
manofmanysmiles 2y ago
I agree with you. It's a lonely world for those that think and feel like you and I do. You are not alone.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Thanks, of course we're not alone, as we understand God's design, but we are definitely in the minority, as evidenced by, basically, all of human history. Love is, itself, on our side, and our happiness is what really sets us apart, my friend. And, remember, they think they're correct, I know I'm correct, and right, too. Peace be with you. We love you.
  - chimpanzee 2y ago
    > we understand God’s design The confidence is concerning.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      Research Eugene Parker and learn why he said, "We'll see who falls flat." And, wow, the nominative determinism in these comments is fantastic. Yes, it takes a brave person to accept that they have to change, and that all their underpinnings of existence are deeply flawed and the cause of the world's sufferings. Ignorance is destructive, my friend, to both our and others' happiness. Compassion is the Way, and it cannot be argued, from even just a basic systems theoretic standpoint.
      - chimpanzee 2y ago
        Now it’s impressive.
    - manofmanysmiles 2y ago
      I won't say that I "understand God's design," though I am flattered that someone would say so! I claim only to be in awe of this reality, and see glimpses of an intelligence and love larger than myself. I strive to align my action, thoughts, feelings and intentions to be in service to all life and guided by the dim glimpses of that which is beyond thought and form.

kamma 2y ago

> The rest of creation is on auto-pilot, guided by and incorporating the Creator's loving compassion for us in their every behavior. Proof?

uoaei 2y ago
Peak HN comment, especially with that username...
MrMcCall 2y ago
You must seek and find that for yourself, my friend. "The Way goes in." --Rumi

kaashif 2y ago

> We are the only creatures that can choose compassion over selfishness. You don't think orangutans or other intelligent apes can do this? There are lots of experiments and anecdotes you'd have to explain away.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Yes, kinship theory is a real understanding of behavior, but the animals don't choose compassion over selfishness, they merely make an instinctive survival cost-benefit analysis in the moment. So it's not even a kind of thinking, as we human beings have a conscience and mind capable of abstract conceptual thought that allows us to weigh the morality of what we are considering, and then decide. Of course, having free will means that we can ignore our unique capabilities and behave as our built-in mammalian, pack-centric, dominance-seeking, body plans provide us out-of-the-box. The only thinking I have seen in the animal world involve primates and birds using tools, and dolphins using impressive hunting techniques, where the younger generations learn them from the older. Regardless, if they are thinking, they are very primitive.
- dl9999 2y ago
  How is it known or tested to verify that "animals don't choose compassion over selfishness, they merely make an instinctive survival cost-benefit analysis"? I'm not disputing it, but I've never understood how we can say definitively that animals are doing the same things we do, but they are doing it out of instinct.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    You have to verify yourself that this is a level that human beings can reach, should they connect with their Creator and ask (beg) to level-up and learn. My comments over the past few days explain it quite fully. The "evidence" I would suggest is that the only tool-making animals are some primates and birds, but I'm sure there are others. But that is not abstract thought and thoughful choosing. Their choosing is purely for survival benefit, including their partnering with humans.

thebruce87m 2y ago

> The rest of creation is on auto-pilot, guided by and incorporating the Creator's loving compassion for us in their every behavior. From the gentle kiss of a bee sting, to the loving nibble of a shark bite.

andrewflnr 2y ago
Those are benign compared to some of the stuff parasites get up to.
- thfuran 2y ago
  Let us not forget the loving embrace of N. Fowleri, whose presence shall always remain in our minds.
MrMcCall 2y ago
Yeah, they are instructive, no? The burnt hand and all that.

arghwhat 2y ago

> Ask your dog about their intelligence, and they will reply If your dog replies, you either have a truly exceptional dog with human-like vocal cords, or need to see a psychiatrist. That we are more intelligent is nothing more than an evolutionary decision - our ancestors decided to lead lifestyles where trading base energy consumption for higher mental capabilities made sense. Other creatures are not on auto-pilot, even if their thought process ranges from simpler to outright primitive. When dolphins endanger themselves to chase away sharks to save humans they go against instincts and self preservation (and thereby anything you'd consider autopilot). On the other hand, humans are the ones that have turned averse to danger and anything out of the ordinary, preferring to stick to "auto-pilot" for safety. In fact, I'd argue that the supposed response from your dog sounds quite like a human: as long as you keep paying me, I'll do the same mindless daily routine without question.

MrMcCall 2y ago
I didn't say it would reply with words. And you should learn about the instinct of kinship theory, where worker ants and bees give up their ability to procreate and even live, for the benefit of the colony. Only we can choose such selfless compassion, after contemplating and understanding what we are giving and the costs we will likely incur.
- arghwhat 2y ago
  Ants and bees are not showing selflessness, they are showing strict hierarchy and chain of command. Entirely different concept. Not to mention that ants are very, very far from dogs, dolphins and humans. There is no reason to think that a dolphin would have to share their behavior, nor that a human wouldn't share their behavior - do people really choose to be selfless when they dedicate their life to a company, or are they just mindlessly following the march like the ants? There will be the occasional ant that doesn't do as told, leaving the question of where there are more humans or ants breaking showing independence and breaking out of rank. For reference, there exist many types of ants that have abandoned the normal ways of ant colonies. > I didn't say it would reply with words. It would be even more impressive if it managed to communicate without words - Telepathy is not exactly expected in dogs.

perching_aix 2y ago

> the Creator Who?

Etheryte 2y ago

I can see why you might believe that, but it's simply not true. There are countless well documented examples and scientific studies that show that animals exhibit all the traits you describe. Chimpanzees show compassion by consoling victims of aggression [0], being especially attentive to others with whom they have a closer bond. They have friends and relatives just like we do, they value those social structures just like we do, and they choose to give them emotional support, without getting anything in return. Rats try and free restrained cage mates [1] and share their food with them, even though from a selfish perspective it would be better for them to eat the food and not share. They understand the other is suffering and try to alleviate it, just like we do. Neural imaging on animals has shown that their brains both have the same features that ours do for these purposes and they use them in similar ways. All of this is not even remotely controversial, it's well understood and thoroughly studied across numerous decades. [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00302695 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00302695 [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22158823/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22158823/

MrMcCall 2y ago
Of course animals exhibit teamwork, but they do not have a free will that can choose compassion in the face of its opposite, selfishness. You can note all the abstract thought that animals exhibit, perhaps some equations on a chalkboard?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- antasvara 2y ago
  My 1 year old can't write equations on a chalkboard. Despite that, she shows compassion and what if consider abstract thought. The issue that I think you're highlighting is that we can't map our measures of intelligence directly on to other animals. Animals can't write, so it wouldn't make sense to use a measure that requires writing when evaluating a fox or squirrel.
  - 2y ago

manofmanysmiles 2y ago

I agree with you. It's a lonely world for those that think and feel like you and I do. You are not alone.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Thanks, of course we're not alone, as we understand God's design, but we are definitely in the minority, as evidenced by, basically, all of human history. Love is, itself, on our side, and our happiness is what really sets us apart, my friend. And, remember, they think they're correct, I know I'm correct, and right, too. Peace be with you. We love you.
- chimpanzee 2y ago
  > we understand God’s design The confidence is concerning.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    Research Eugene Parker and learn why he said, "We'll see who falls flat." And, wow, the nominative determinism in these comments is fantastic. Yes, it takes a brave person to accept that they have to change, and that all their underpinnings of existence are deeply flawed and the cause of the world's sufferings. Ignorance is destructive, my friend, to both our and others' happiness. Compassion is the Way, and it cannot be argued, from even just a basic systems theoretic standpoint.
    - chimpanzee 2y ago
      Now it’s impressive.
  - manofmanysmiles 2y ago
    I won't say that I "understand God's design," though I am flattered that someone would say so! I claim only to be in awe of this reality, and see glimpses of an intelligence and love larger than myself. I strive to align my action, thoughts, feelings and intentions to be in service to all life and guided by the dim glimpses of that which is beyond thought and form.