7 ms·

That was a great article. It highlights many things I routinely hear in church about how God works through families. They and the books we read talk about how c

That was a great article. It highlights many things I routinely hear in church about how God works through families. They and the books we read talk about how children are a gift that humbles us, starts transforming our character, and teaches us a lot. God uses children in big ways. Recently, we’ve been reading Disciplines of a Godly Man by R. Kent Hughes. Today we’re to discuss the chapter on Fatherhood. I was happy to see the author had learned a few of these lessons. Here’s a few for those interested. Do’s include investing time in them, speaking tenderly, teaching them, setting an example, discipline where necessary, and especially praying for them. If they have Christ, and God intervenes for them, many situations day to day work out better than if left purely to human nature. My friends strongly attest to this with many examples. Don’t included too much criticism (or too little praise), excessive strictness, irritability (esp “been at work all day!”), inconsistency, and favoritism. He gives examples of each hurting relationships between fathers and sons. I thought those were a nice start. Character of Christ, putting the children first (love), and some specific tips. Lastly, we can be calm knowing God is in control of every step of our future. He just expects us to act on what we’ve learned a day at a time. He’ll only let happen what needs to happen for His plan for our lives and our kids’ lives. That’s comforting.

hiatus 2y ago
[flagged]
- nickpsecurity 2y ago
  You’ve brought up important points. Why does suffering exist? How do people face it differently if they know God personally? God intended for us to live forever in a paradise with Him. Instead, people wanted to be their own gods, lie, lust, steal, kidnap, etc. Even if warned, all have sinned and continue to choose evil. Suffering is God’s wrath on sin, often through our own decisions but not always. He wants people to repent whereupon they will eventually see a world restored. (Essentially, everyone who commits evil was the cause of the dead children, etc. A collective responsibility. They won’t stop doing evil either. Not even to save children.) Parent also tell me how the Spirit of God and prayer help. So many situations go better than they would have. That’s by good teaching (character), a disaster avoided by an unlikely event answered in prayer, more calm during it, or increased wisdom on the way out of it. The peace God gives to believers in all circumstances, an inner peace, helps facing chaos and uncertainty. Like sending kids to college knowing God is with them. I interviewed tons of people as a hardcore atheist. I’ve listened to many as a Christian. My friends lost children, had their sisters kidnapped (two murdered), etc. I had PTSD, etc. The difference between how people experience these events in Christ vs on their own is very evident. Also, God’s interventions for those that pray can be huge. Here’s a recent one. A couple I met in a store told me why they appreciate Christ more that week. Their son’s car was smashed into a tree (looked like it was compacted) with driver leaving his body in a ditch to die. A relative, devout Christian, felt an overwhelming urge to take a different road which they thought was from God. They saw his body in a chance event. In the hospital, after more prayer, he had a swollen eye and a rod in his leg instead of dead which the EMT’s said happened to everyone else they saw in that situation. Likewise, my friend whose sisters were kidnapped wasn’t close to Christ. Situation made the news. Two girls were killed. Many people prayed for God to intervene. Between the attacker’s decision and a bystander’s presence, an unlikely tip happened that led police to where the other two were held. That could’ve gone very differently. Two more. Another friend lost her daughter to a hit and run by a texting teenager. While depressing, she’s been highly impactful to others thanks to a strong relationship with Christ. Didn’t go back to hard drugs she had just kicked. Also, love of Christ motivated her to worry about the driver’s emotional health so much she contacted her to counsel her. She and the woman who killed her daughter are on good terms despite the tragedy. In another case, baby Silas was dying in the hospital. Pictures showed him a gray color with holes in his neck. Eyes rolled back in his head. They were praying as a group for him. He’s alive and well today. Better than all of this, our experiences with Christ just point to the greater truth that one day all who believe will be in heaven with Him. There will be no pain. He will wipe away ever tear from every eye. If they were in Christ, we didn’t lose any loved ones cuz we’ll see them again. Even those who sadly weren’t born. :)
  - hiatus 2y ago
    You haven't addressed the secondary point I was making: what does an innocent child have to repent for? What is the purpose of their gruesome death? If it is for the benefit of others, that means some of us are just pawns for the lessons of others. The alternative is that some kids just die through no fault of their own and for no reason at all (which leads to the question: why would an all-knowing, loving god allow that?). Of course, this all ignores the suffering of other life like chickens that through no fault of their own born and die in the same cage without ever seeing the sun. > Suffering is God’s wrath on sin, often through our own decisions but not always. He wants people to repent whereupon they will eventually see a world restored. So a toddler abducted and murdered suffered to repent for what? To teach the parents a lesson? To bring the parents closer to Christ? I have asked this question to many religious teachers and all had answers similar to yours (or hid behind things like "they weren't baptized") and none addressed the core that real, innocent people die horrible deaths from time to time through no fault of their own. Others may learn and grow from the experience but what about the innocent person that died?
    - nickpsecurity 2y ago
      To understand this, you have to start with four components: God’s sovereignty; human’s autonomy with consequences; individual vs group effects; all sin (evil) must be punished. God is sovereign which means He can do what He pleases. He created us to worship Him and love each other. He’s also painting a story of humanity that shows who He is (all attributes), who we are, and how that interacts. We are all part of the story He is telling whether we want to be or not. Christ dying for unworthy, unrepentant people to redeem and adopt them as His children is the climax of His love story. God making us in His image means He makes us autonomous: free agents able to choose good or evil. He also allows the consequences of both. On an eternal level, choosing Christ leads to life while betraying a perfect, everlasting God leads to eternal punishment. On earthly level, our choices impact us, our families, and our societies. God lets most play out with minimal intervention. If His children ask Him (pray), He sometimes intervenes on those same levels to help them. We’re also in it together. God judges our actions as individuals, families, nations, and even humanity as a whole. He blesses obedience and curses disobedience which includes, per Deuteronomy 27-30, both fertility rates and our health. We also see most harms are directly tied to selfish, sinful behavior of humans (consequences of choices). His wrath is often letting our choices hurt us so we or others will learn from it. Ex: My PTSD was caused by others’ sins but my liver problems came from mine. Many health problems are caused by our diets, how we process food, and stressful choices. Our public policies, including financial investments, can help or hurt people. Individually and nationally, we can intervene (or not) to help the helpless or restrain evil. Choices -> consequences. That all of humanity rebels against God, even daily choosing evil, requires a holy God to respond to that. Genesis 3 and 4 said He cursed the Earth with hard labor, childbearing pain, and death itself. People didn’t repent. So, that form of His wrath continues as both justice and tough love to inspire repentance. That’s why children die. They die because everyone opposes God to a degree which forgoes protections, like against natural causes, that are conditional on collective obedience. They die because we poison our environment, our bodies, and so on. They die when people neglect them or kill them, inside and outside the womb. We’re tested where some have conditions that can be treated but we’re too selfish to allocate the resources that way. Then, people mistreat them as adults, too. So, the combo is the moral law of God that rewards/punishes choices, free will means we can earn justice for evil choices, that our choices affect other people, and a holy God always punishes sin somehow. That creates all suffering on the Earth. People also stay evil even when we tell them that which justifies God’s wrath even more. Yet, God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes in Him shall never perish but have eternal life. Whoever confessed Jesus is Lord will be saved. He’ll help them transform, too. Repent and choose life. That He offers these things to wicked people, even guaranteeing their salvation by Jesus’ own blood, is the Good News.
hooverd 2y ago
As someone who used to work with a children's hospital (on the EMR site but still) I wish we could find and kill the asshole who decided a myriad of childhood cancers was in their grand plan.
- nickpsecurity 2y ago
  You can save over ten million children from murder if you raise support to ban abortion. Cancer is horrible, too. People following Christ built many hospitals, orphanages, recovery programs, and places like Life Choices Memphis to do what we can for them. You show two, common views: God owes us something; no gratitude. God is a sovereign being who can do what He wants with His creation like you do with your possessions. If we always choose evil, He owes us nothing but wrath. Yet, people expect God of all creation to come down, drop on His knees to kiss their feet, and do an entire list of things to please them and earn their respect. What arrogance! In fact, His lovingkindness and mercies are on everything He’s made. He gives the gift of children to many people, gives medical treatment for cancers that human activities (eg chemicals/food/stress) are likely causing, and all the good things in our lives. Gor protects so many children that there’s almost ten billion people on Earth. So, people show up on Hacker News grateful for all God has given them: children, our daily lives, and even good submissions here. Nope! Maybe you thank Him for protecting billions of lives or motivating tens of billions in charity. Nope! Instead, people act like He doesn’t exist, censor the Gospel in media, curse His name in movies, and accuse Him on HN with no credit for any positive things. God must love us to keep letting us live, healing our kids, etc. While we were still sinners (God’s enemies), Christ died for us so we’d get a second chance. You should repent of the evil in your heart. Once you meet God, you may thank Him for all He does for you instead of curse Him. Especially for the gift of eternal life.
  - vivi_ 2y ago
    Why are you doing this? Friendly reminder that this is HackerNews; nobody is here (nor cares) to read your incoherent, unwelcome religious preach nor to argue religion - at all. That is not the topic of the article, there is nothing to do with religion in the article yet you feel it is your duty to solicit your irrelevant and frankly offensive religious beliefs onto others. I don't spew atheist thought unto christianforums.com - though if I did I'm certain there would be be pitchforks, unchallenged hypocrisy is one of religions most potent weapons. Also, I'm assuming you do not possess the physical configuration to give birth to a child so lay hands off her body, it's not your f*cking life. If you are indeed capable of birthing a child, forgive me - I hear y'all good at that. One last question: is your zealotry the reason behind your lobste.rs ban last year by pushcx? > Even supposedly friendly bigotry is unwelcome. Maybe don't pray on us, cool? Thanks! edit: spelling
lwhalen 2y ago
[flagged]
- mistermann 2y ago
  There is substantial irony in your comment fyi.
  - lwhalen 2y ago
    do tell?
    - mistermann 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - lwhalen 2y ago
        [flagged]
        throw10920 2y ago
        > Wait, what am I going to be saved from, you say? Oh, what sky-daddy will do to me if I DON'T love, honor, obey, and tithe him, etc. You need to take a look at the HN guidelines because you have very clearly not read them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        mistermann 2y ago
        I am perfectly fine with it. The HN (and other "intellectual" online spaces) guidelines are a big part of The Problem.
        throw10920 2y ago
        > The HN (and other "intellectual" online spaces) guidelines are a big part of The Problem. I would argue that, as far as "intellectual online spaces" go (e.g. LessWrong, less memey subreddits), HN has one of the best sets of rules that are the most consistently enforced. But you probably have something specific that you mean by The Problem that I'm not anticipating. Could you elaborate?
aliasxneo 2y ago
I was gonna say you must be new to HN, but it appears you’re not. I assumed the anti-Christian sentiment had finally driven most Christians away from here.
- genghisjahn 2y ago
  I’ve been here for a bit and I’m a Christian. Pain and suffering are difficult to rationalize with the whole “God only gives you want you can handle stuff.” It’s not comforting. Bad things happen to Christians all the time. I try to ease suffering no matter who it happens to. It does help me to remember that Jesus suffered too. I’d say more but my son is saying “play with me” over and over. Take care ya’ll.
anonu 2y ago
I think your comment is additive to the conversation, despite it not agreeing with the core HN cohort. Not worth downvoting IMO.
isoprophlex 2y ago
If you want to prosetylize, go hand out flyers in a shopping mall or whatever...
- mistermann 2y ago
  Do the HN guidelines explicitly outlaw proselytization of specific metaphysical frameworks? Because there is more than one person engaged in the activity.

hiatus 2y ago

[flagged]

nickpsecurity 2y ago
You’ve brought up important points. Why does suffering exist? How do people face it differently if they know God personally? God intended for us to live forever in a paradise with Him. Instead, people wanted to be their own gods, lie, lust, steal, kidnap, etc. Even if warned, all have sinned and continue to choose evil. Suffering is God’s wrath on sin, often through our own decisions but not always. He wants people to repent whereupon they will eventually see a world restored. (Essentially, everyone who commits evil was the cause of the dead children, etc. A collective responsibility. They won’t stop doing evil either. Not even to save children.) Parent also tell me how the Spirit of God and prayer help. So many situations go better than they would have. That’s by good teaching (character), a disaster avoided by an unlikely event answered in prayer, more calm during it, or increased wisdom on the way out of it. The peace God gives to believers in all circumstances, an inner peace, helps facing chaos and uncertainty. Like sending kids to college knowing God is with them. I interviewed tons of people as a hardcore atheist. I’ve listened to many as a Christian. My friends lost children, had their sisters kidnapped (two murdered), etc. I had PTSD, etc. The difference between how people experience these events in Christ vs on their own is very evident. Also, God’s interventions for those that pray can be huge. Here’s a recent one. A couple I met in a store told me why they appreciate Christ more that week. Their son’s car was smashed into a tree (looked like it was compacted) with driver leaving his body in a ditch to die. A relative, devout Christian, felt an overwhelming urge to take a different road which they thought was from God. They saw his body in a chance event. In the hospital, after more prayer, he had a swollen eye and a rod in his leg instead of dead which the EMT’s said happened to everyone else they saw in that situation. Likewise, my friend whose sisters were kidnapped wasn’t close to Christ. Situation made the news. Two girls were killed. Many people prayed for God to intervene. Between the attacker’s decision and a bystander’s presence, an unlikely tip happened that led police to where the other two were held. That could’ve gone very differently. Two more. Another friend lost her daughter to a hit and run by a texting teenager. While depressing, she’s been highly impactful to others thanks to a strong relationship with Christ. Didn’t go back to hard drugs she had just kicked. Also, love of Christ motivated her to worry about the driver’s emotional health so much she contacted her to counsel her. She and the woman who killed her daughter are on good terms despite the tragedy. In another case, baby Silas was dying in the hospital. Pictures showed him a gray color with holes in his neck. Eyes rolled back in his head. They were praying as a group for him. He’s alive and well today. Better than all of this, our experiences with Christ just point to the greater truth that one day all who believe will be in heaven with Him. There will be no pain. He will wipe away ever tear from every eye. If they were in Christ, we didn’t lose any loved ones cuz we’ll see them again. Even those who sadly weren’t born. :)
- hiatus 2y ago
  You haven't addressed the secondary point I was making: what does an innocent child have to repent for? What is the purpose of their gruesome death? If it is for the benefit of others, that means some of us are just pawns for the lessons of others. The alternative is that some kids just die through no fault of their own and for no reason at all (which leads to the question: why would an all-knowing, loving god allow that?). Of course, this all ignores the suffering of other life like chickens that through no fault of their own born and die in the same cage without ever seeing the sun. > Suffering is God’s wrath on sin, often through our own decisions but not always. He wants people to repent whereupon they will eventually see a world restored. So a toddler abducted and murdered suffered to repent for what? To teach the parents a lesson? To bring the parents closer to Christ? I have asked this question to many religious teachers and all had answers similar to yours (or hid behind things like "they weren't baptized") and none addressed the core that real, innocent people die horrible deaths from time to time through no fault of their own. Others may learn and grow from the experience but what about the innocent person that died?
  - nickpsecurity 2y ago
    To understand this, you have to start with four components: God’s sovereignty; human’s autonomy with consequences; individual vs group effects; all sin (evil) must be punished. God is sovereign which means He can do what He pleases. He created us to worship Him and love each other. He’s also painting a story of humanity that shows who He is (all attributes), who we are, and how that interacts. We are all part of the story He is telling whether we want to be or not. Christ dying for unworthy, unrepentant people to redeem and adopt them as His children is the climax of His love story. God making us in His image means He makes us autonomous: free agents able to choose good or evil. He also allows the consequences of both. On an eternal level, choosing Christ leads to life while betraying a perfect, everlasting God leads to eternal punishment. On earthly level, our choices impact us, our families, and our societies. God lets most play out with minimal intervention. If His children ask Him (pray), He sometimes intervenes on those same levels to help them. We’re also in it together. God judges our actions as individuals, families, nations, and even humanity as a whole. He blesses obedience and curses disobedience which includes, per Deuteronomy 27-30, both fertility rates and our health. We also see most harms are directly tied to selfish, sinful behavior of humans (consequences of choices). His wrath is often letting our choices hurt us so we or others will learn from it. Ex: My PTSD was caused by others’ sins but my liver problems came from mine. Many health problems are caused by our diets, how we process food, and stressful choices. Our public policies, including financial investments, can help or hurt people. Individually and nationally, we can intervene (or not) to help the helpless or restrain evil. Choices -> consequences. That all of humanity rebels against God, even daily choosing evil, requires a holy God to respond to that. Genesis 3 and 4 said He cursed the Earth with hard labor, childbearing pain, and death itself. People didn’t repent. So, that form of His wrath continues as both justice and tough love to inspire repentance. That’s why children die. They die because everyone opposes God to a degree which forgoes protections, like against natural causes, that are conditional on collective obedience. They die because we poison our environment, our bodies, and so on. They die when people neglect them or kill them, inside and outside the womb. We’re tested where some have conditions that can be treated but we’re too selfish to allocate the resources that way. Then, people mistreat them as adults, too. So, the combo is the moral law of God that rewards/punishes choices, free will means we can earn justice for evil choices, that our choices affect other people, and a holy God always punishes sin somehow. That creates all suffering on the Earth. People also stay evil even when we tell them that which justifies God’s wrath even more. Yet, God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes in Him shall never perish but have eternal life. Whoever confessed Jesus is Lord will be saved. He’ll help them transform, too. Repent and choose life. That He offers these things to wicked people, even guaranteeing their salvation by Jesus’ own blood, is the Good News.

hooverd 2y ago

As someone who used to work with a children's hospital (on the EMR site but still) I wish we could find and kill the asshole who decided a myriad of childhood cancers was in their grand plan.

nickpsecurity 2y ago
You can save over ten million children from murder if you raise support to ban abortion. Cancer is horrible, too. People following Christ built many hospitals, orphanages, recovery programs, and places like Life Choices Memphis to do what we can for them. You show two, common views: God owes us something; no gratitude. God is a sovereign being who can do what He wants with His creation like you do with your possessions. If we always choose evil, He owes us nothing but wrath. Yet, people expect God of all creation to come down, drop on His knees to kiss their feet, and do an entire list of things to please them and earn their respect. What arrogance! In fact, His lovingkindness and mercies are on everything He’s made. He gives the gift of children to many people, gives medical treatment for cancers that human activities (eg chemicals/food/stress) are likely causing, and all the good things in our lives. Gor protects so many children that there’s almost ten billion people on Earth. So, people show up on Hacker News grateful for all God has given them: children, our daily lives, and even good submissions here. Nope! Maybe you thank Him for protecting billions of lives or motivating tens of billions in charity. Nope! Instead, people act like He doesn’t exist, censor the Gospel in media, curse His name in movies, and accuse Him on HN with no credit for any positive things. God must love us to keep letting us live, healing our kids, etc. While we were still sinners (God’s enemies), Christ died for us so we’d get a second chance. You should repent of the evil in your heart. Once you meet God, you may thank Him for all He does for you instead of curse Him. Especially for the gift of eternal life.
- vivi_ 2y ago
  Why are you doing this? Friendly reminder that this is HackerNews; nobody is here (nor cares) to read your incoherent, unwelcome religious preach nor to argue religion - at all. That is not the topic of the article, there is nothing to do with religion in the article yet you feel it is your duty to solicit your irrelevant and frankly offensive religious beliefs onto others. I don't spew atheist thought unto christianforums.com - though if I did I'm certain there would be be pitchforks, unchallenged hypocrisy is one of religions most potent weapons. Also, I'm assuming you do not possess the physical configuration to give birth to a child so lay hands off her body, it's not your f*cking life. If you are indeed capable of birthing a child, forgive me - I hear y'all good at that. One last question: is your zealotry the reason behind your lobste.rs ban last year by pushcx? > Even supposedly friendly bigotry is unwelcome. Maybe don't pray on us, cool? Thanks! edit: spelling

lwhalen 2y ago

[flagged]

mistermann 2y ago
There is substantial irony in your comment fyi.
- lwhalen 2y ago
  do tell?
  - mistermann 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - lwhalen 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - throw10920 2y ago
        > Wait, what am I going to be saved from, you say? Oh, what sky-daddy will do to me if I DON'T love, honor, obey, and tithe him, etc. You need to take a look at the HN guidelines because you have very clearly not read them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        mistermann 2y ago
        I am perfectly fine with it. The HN (and other "intellectual" online spaces) guidelines are a big part of The Problem.
        throw10920 2y ago
        > The HN (and other "intellectual" online spaces) guidelines are a big part of The Problem. I would argue that, as far as "intellectual online spaces" go (e.g. LessWrong, less memey subreddits), HN has one of the best sets of rules that are the most consistently enforced. But you probably have something specific that you mean by The Problem that I'm not anticipating. Could you elaborate?

aliasxneo 2y ago

I was gonna say you must be new to HN, but it appears you’re not. I assumed the anti-Christian sentiment had finally driven most Christians away from here.

genghisjahn 2y ago
I’ve been here for a bit and I’m a Christian. Pain and suffering are difficult to rationalize with the whole “God only gives you want you can handle stuff.” It’s not comforting. Bad things happen to Christians all the time. I try to ease suffering no matter who it happens to. It does help me to remember that Jesus suffered too. I’d say more but my son is saying “play with me” over and over. Take care ya’ll.

anonu 2y ago

I think your comment is additive to the conversation, despite it not agreeing with the core HN cohort. Not worth downvoting IMO.

isoprophlex 2y ago

If you want to prosetylize, go hand out flyers in a shopping mall or whatever...

mistermann 2y ago
Do the HN guidelines explicitly outlaw proselytization of specific metaphysical frameworks? Because there is more than one person engaged in the activity.