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* Crash testing & crumple zones. Going up against a "half ton" MRAP in a electric velomobile is suicidal. * Styling & consumer preferences. The SUV reigns su

by mapt 2y ago

* Crash testing & crumple zones. Going up against a "half ton" MRAP in a electric velomobile is suicidal. * Styling & consumer preferences. The SUV reigns supreme. Partly because of CAFE's perverse incentives. * CAFE isn't directly forcing anyone to optimize EVs, and "watt hours per mile" is not widely demanded by consumers, because EV charging is ~40% the cost of gas per mile and because EVs are still exclusively a mid to upmarket thing. Everybody penny pinching is driving a 2003 Toyota with >100k miles which has appreciated in value over the past five years.

formerly_proven 2y ago
The trend to SUVs also exists in countries where SUVs aren't exempt from stuff similar to CAFE. Consumers overwhelmingly prefer SUVs and large, heavy vehicles. They're the single most popular segment of cars in essentially any market that can afford them. I wish it weren't so, but the revealed preference of the median car buyer is to simply buy as much car by the ton as they can afford.
- zonkerdonker 2y ago
  It seems hard to differntiate between chicken and the egg here. Do consumers really prefer big vehicles outright? Or do they prefer them based on the marketing of those vehicles as 'safer' or 'capable' or whatever? We know margins are higher on larger cars, so there is an incentive even in non-CAFE areas. Part of it feels like an arms race played out on the road as well. I finally had to buy a new[er] car after my 2001 Volvo wagon died. Modern cars are massive, heavy, and have shit visibility. They also have surprisingly similar or even smaller interior volumes compared to similar exterior sozed cars of 15+ years ago. But let me tell you, test driving even like a modern RAV4 (not a huge car by modern standards) made me feel like a prince on the road compared to my low ride wagon. Didnt feel like every other car on the road could run me over without noticing either. Seems like cars will just keep growing til they hit the limit of roads, parking lots, and garages?
- mapt 2y ago
  The American car industry largely created, popularized, and continues to heavily promote the concept of huge SUVs and impractically huge pickups with high ground clearance, high weight, tall hoods and tall beds. It's almost synonymous with our national identity, in the modern automotive era. And that domestic market seeking overseas sales is shaped by CAFE, which in combination with manufacturing conditions has almost prohibited them from making the sort of small pickup trucks favored by the entire world before CAFE, and which remains common in the rest of the world. Sedans, minivans, even the tradesman's current best option in light commercial vans, are barely produced domestically anymore in comparison to the Lifestyle Truck, a thing which we gradually invented sometimes between 1980 and 2010 out of enclosure of small pickups, then the Soccer Mom replacing the minivan with a more vertically inclined Isuzu, then the Army HMMWV, then the F-150 and everything else just inflating in size annually. CAFE's min-max optimization is why every marketing executive in the sector wants you to adopt an offroading hobby. That seeps out. Cultural export.

by mapt 2y ago

formerly_proven 2y ago

The trend to SUVs also exists in countries where SUVs aren't exempt from stuff similar to CAFE. Consumers overwhelmingly prefer SUVs and large, heavy vehicles. They're the single most popular segment of cars in essentially any market that can afford them. I wish it weren't so, but the revealed preference of the median car buyer is to simply buy as much car by the ton as they can afford.

zonkerdonker 2y ago
It seems hard to differntiate between chicken and the egg here. Do consumers really prefer big vehicles outright? Or do they prefer them based on the marketing of those vehicles as 'safer' or 'capable' or whatever? We know margins are higher on larger cars, so there is an incentive even in non-CAFE areas. Part of it feels like an arms race played out on the road as well. I finally had to buy a new[er] car after my 2001 Volvo wagon died. Modern cars are massive, heavy, and have shit visibility. They also have surprisingly similar or even smaller interior volumes compared to similar exterior sozed cars of 15+ years ago. But let me tell you, test driving even like a modern RAV4 (not a huge car by modern standards) made me feel like a prince on the road compared to my low ride wagon. Didnt feel like every other car on the road could run me over without noticing either. Seems like cars will just keep growing til they hit the limit of roads, parking lots, and garages?
mapt 2y ago
The American car industry largely created, popularized, and continues to heavily promote the concept of huge SUVs and impractically huge pickups with high ground clearance, high weight, tall hoods and tall beds. It's almost synonymous with our national identity, in the modern automotive era. And that domestic market seeking overseas sales is shaped by CAFE, which in combination with manufacturing conditions has almost prohibited them from making the sort of small pickup trucks favored by the entire world before CAFE, and which remains common in the rest of the world. Sedans, minivans, even the tradesman's current best option in light commercial vans, are barely produced domestically anymore in comparison to the Lifestyle Truck, a thing which we gradually invented sometimes between 1980 and 2010 out of enclosure of small pickups, then the Soccer Mom replacing the minivan with a more vertically inclined Isuzu, then the Army HMMWV, then the F-150 and everything else just inflating in size annually. CAFE's min-max optimization is why every marketing executive in the sector wants you to adopt an offroading hobby. That seeps out. Cultural export.