5 ms·

Most of what I'm following here is existing state based CHL checks. Those are reasonable, provide benefits (expedited sales), and are effective in that CHL hold

by oooyay 2y ago

Most of what I'm following here is existing state based CHL checks. Those are reasonable, provide benefits (expedited sales), and are effective in that CHL holders are not typically the people that those people are trying to prevent sale to. Brady I don't have much of an opinion on. I do know, as a value, that I buy all of my firearms through a licensed FFL. It's at most $50 + shipping. I don't think that's too restrictive.

15155 2y ago
Okay, can we expand these restrictions to voting? If not, why?
- oooyay 2y ago
  I updated my comment before you commented and added: > Brady I don't have much of an opinion on. I do know, as a value, that I buy all of my firearms through a licensed FFL. It's at most $50 + shipping. I don't think that's too restrictive. I think we, as gun owners, do need to acknowledge there are people who go to gun shows to illegally acquire weapons or perform strawman sales with relative ease. Maybe my solution isn't the best, but it does need addressing. If you really want to tread into analoging ownership to voting I think you'll be very disappointed. We require a lot of hurdles to vote. You have to go to an authorized voting location (akin to going to an FFL), you have to present ID that is known to the state so they can correlate that you are, in fact, in the right place (all those checks I mentioned), and afterwards they determine whether everyone who voted was eligible to vote. If they weren't, they're charged with a serious crime.
  - 15155 2y ago
    > you have to present ID that is known to the state Not in most states. --- There are people that go to the polling booth and commit voter fraud with relative ease, therefore it needs addressed. The Brady bill was allowed to proceed because of the guarantee that people wouldn't need to involve the government to conduct a private sale between two individuals or gift firearms between father and son, for instance. Calling it a loophole that "does need addressing" is reneging on a compromise. Also, have you ever been to a gun show? Recently? Do you know the actual, real percentage of FFLs present vs private individuals? Today, these shows are composed of 95% FFLs anyway, all of whom perform background checks - and the available deals are shitty.
    - gruez 2y ago
      >There are people that go to the polling booth and commit voter fraud with relative ease, therefore it needs addressed. While I'm sure there's a non-zero amount of fraud going on, by all official accounts the actual rate is negligible.
      - 15155 2y ago
        Is it more or less negligible than the number of intentional rifle homicides occurring in this country?
    - oooyay 2y ago
      Voter fraud is exceedingly rare in the US: https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-explainer https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-exp... I understand it was used as a talking point by a certain person in this last election, but it was only a talking point - not truth. > Today, these shows are composed of 95% FFLs anyway, all of whom perform background checks I have been to a gun show recently. We can, and should, close that 5% gap. An FFL is an intermediary and the ATF doesn't retain records about transactions they do by law. FFLs will maintain their own records, but they're no some widely searchable database (which is what people fear in an Orwellian sense).
      - 15155 2y ago
        > We can, and should, close that 5% gap. Good luck getting compliance without a formal registry.. oh wait.
        oooyay 2y ago
        There is no federal registry, that's why the FFL system exists. They track who they did transactions with and if the federal government needs to know about a transaction they can approach the FFL holders. The system works as designed to preserve privacy while also providing some amount of traceability. All that needs to happen is the prohibition of private sale outside of an FFL. From there you can penalize gun shows that allow non-FFL holders to sell. As I said earlier, there's not a good reason not to transact through an FFL. They're charged with maintaining your privacy as a purchaser while simultaneously preventing strawman purchases. They're a very basic extension of nearly every pawn broker.

by oooyay 2y ago

15155 2y ago

Okay, can we expand these restrictions to voting? If not, why?

oooyay 2y ago
I updated my comment before you commented and added: > Brady I don't have much of an opinion on. I do know, as a value, that I buy all of my firearms through a licensed FFL. It's at most $50 + shipping. I don't think that's too restrictive. I think we, as gun owners, do need to acknowledge there are people who go to gun shows to illegally acquire weapons or perform strawman sales with relative ease. Maybe my solution isn't the best, but it does need addressing. If you really want to tread into analoging ownership to voting I think you'll be very disappointed. We require a lot of hurdles to vote. You have to go to an authorized voting location (akin to going to an FFL), you have to present ID that is known to the state so they can correlate that you are, in fact, in the right place (all those checks I mentioned), and afterwards they determine whether everyone who voted was eligible to vote. If they weren't, they're charged with a serious crime.
- 15155 2y ago
  > you have to present ID that is known to the state Not in most states. --- There are people that go to the polling booth and commit voter fraud with relative ease, therefore it needs addressed. The Brady bill was allowed to proceed because of the guarantee that people wouldn't need to involve the government to conduct a private sale between two individuals or gift firearms between father and son, for instance. Calling it a loophole that "does need addressing" is reneging on a compromise. Also, have you ever been to a gun show? Recently? Do you know the actual, real percentage of FFLs present vs private individuals? Today, these shows are composed of 95% FFLs anyway, all of whom perform background checks - and the available deals are shitty.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >There are people that go to the polling booth and commit voter fraud with relative ease, therefore it needs addressed. While I'm sure there's a non-zero amount of fraud going on, by all official accounts the actual rate is negligible.
    - 15155 2y ago
      Is it more or less negligible than the number of intentional rifle homicides occurring in this country?
  - oooyay 2y ago
    Voter fraud is exceedingly rare in the US: https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-explainer https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-exp... I understand it was used as a talking point by a certain person in this last election, but it was only a talking point - not truth. > Today, these shows are composed of 95% FFLs anyway, all of whom perform background checks I have been to a gun show recently. We can, and should, close that 5% gap. An FFL is an intermediary and the ATF doesn't retain records about transactions they do by law. FFLs will maintain their own records, but they're no some widely searchable database (which is what people fear in an Orwellian sense).
    - 15155 2y ago
      > We can, and should, close that 5% gap. Good luck getting compliance without a formal registry.. oh wait.
      - oooyay 2y ago
        There is no federal registry, that's why the FFL system exists. They track who they did transactions with and if the federal government needs to know about a transaction they can approach the FFL holders. The system works as designed to preserve privacy while also providing some amount of traceability. All that needs to happen is the prohibition of private sale outside of an FFL. From there you can penalize gun shows that allow non-FFL holders to sell. As I said earlier, there's not a good reason not to transact through an FFL. They're charged with maintaining your privacy as a purchaser while simultaneously preventing strawman purchases. They're a very basic extension of nearly every pawn broker.