4 ms·

It was being discussed well before this, in the early 90s i went to a computer lab seminar about this and we asked - we have Tb of data in our detector system

It was being discussed well before this, in the early 90s i went to a computer lab seminar about this and we asked - we have Tb of data in our detector system that is either truely random (ie part of a Monte Carlo sim) or is essentially random (the detector noise), how do we prove this isn't encrypted. Oh don't worry, said the nice man from the police computer unit - it's only going to be used against terrorists.

Zenst 14y ago
That is in practice the intention, though as it is a law on the book's it is open to be abused down the line against non-terroists. As a rule the UK police tend to have alot of common sence, but they are also human. That all said the whole blackberry encryption affair recently arising due to the riots does highlight further shortcommings. Still this law was instigated prior to 9/11 and in that you do wonder what it would look like if it was instigated after the event and how it may of looked.
- sdoering 14y ago
  Well, if I remember right, the UK had their "fair share" of terror (IRA), long before the US suffered from 9/11. So this argumentation does not strike me so extraordinary. But that does not change the point, that this law really has the possibility to be misused.
  - excuse-me 14y ago
    Yes but remarkably after 100years of bombings and assassinations by the IRA the response was to carry on as normal, don't give in to them. The only visible sign was removing litter bins from railway stations and some checkpoints on vehicles enter the financial district of London Yet 5 minutes after the 9/11 attacks on America the UK suddenly needed a whole raft of laws to intercept all phone calls, hold people without trial, random stop and searches etc.
    - TheAmazingIdiot 14y ago
      There are 342 pages in the Patriot Act. Judging by the 1 NAY vote, Feingold was the only one to actually read the damned thing. And considering how "comprehensive" it was, I'd say it was already written up and shelved for a crisis like that. I'm not much for the whole conspiracy theory stuff, but that just seems fairly obvious.
    - polymatter 14y ago
      IRA terrorism was pretty extensive too. They murdered close members of the UK royal family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mou...), major damage to cities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing) and actual mortar attacks on a sitting Prime Minister and other key high level ministers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_mortar_attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_mortar_attack). Have a look at the list for London alone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_...). I had no idea the IRA was this level of threat - a personal threat to the people in power. And the problem was pretty much solved through the long hard slog of getting them round a table talking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement).
      - excuse-me 14y ago
        Hence the slightly raised English eyebrow when American politicians - especially a Kennedy at a St Patricks Day parade in Boston - talk about supporting terrorism.
        Zenst 14y ago
        Yeah and that upto 9/11 you could go into alot of Church's in the Boston area and make donations to the IRA. That kind of stopped post 9/11. We all learn from our mistakes eventualy.
      - Zenst 14y ago

Zenst 14y ago

That is in practice the intention, though as it is a law on the book's it is open to be abused down the line against non-terroists. As a rule the UK police tend to have alot of common sence, but they are also human. That all said the whole blackberry encryption affair recently arising due to the riots does highlight further shortcommings. Still this law was instigated prior to 9/11 and in that you do wonder what it would look like if it was instigated after the event and how it may of looked.

sdoering 14y ago
Well, if I remember right, the UK had their "fair share" of terror (IRA), long before the US suffered from 9/11. So this argumentation does not strike me so extraordinary. But that does not change the point, that this law really has the possibility to be misused.
- excuse-me 14y ago
  Yes but remarkably after 100years of bombings and assassinations by the IRA the response was to carry on as normal, don't give in to them. The only visible sign was removing litter bins from railway stations and some checkpoints on vehicles enter the financial district of London Yet 5 minutes after the 9/11 attacks on America the UK suddenly needed a whole raft of laws to intercept all phone calls, hold people without trial, random stop and searches etc.
  - TheAmazingIdiot 14y ago
    There are 342 pages in the Patriot Act. Judging by the 1 NAY vote, Feingold was the only one to actually read the damned thing. And considering how "comprehensive" it was, I'd say it was already written up and shelved for a crisis like that. I'm not much for the whole conspiracy theory stuff, but that just seems fairly obvious.
  - polymatter 14y ago
    IRA terrorism was pretty extensive too. They murdered close members of the UK royal family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mou...), major damage to cities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing) and actual mortar attacks on a sitting Prime Minister and other key high level ministers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_mortar_attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_mortar_attack). Have a look at the list for London alone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_...). I had no idea the IRA was this level of threat - a personal threat to the people in power. And the problem was pretty much solved through the long hard slog of getting them round a table talking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement).
    - excuse-me 14y ago
      Hence the slightly raised English eyebrow when American politicians - especially a Kennedy at a St Patricks Day parade in Boston - talk about supporting terrorism.
      - Zenst 14y ago
        Yeah and that upto 9/11 you could go into alot of Church's in the Boston area and make donations to the IRA. That kind of stopped post 9/11. We all learn from our mistakes eventualy.
    - Zenst 14y ago