3 ms·

>> they have to convince a judge that the allegations are true, and that getting the keys to your random noise will produce evidence You are correct. However,

>> they have to convince a judge that the allegations are true, and that getting the keys to your random noise will produce evidence You are correct. However, suppose you encrypt some data and forget the key, or you store some radio noise in a file, or whatever. Later, you are accused of a crime. The judge issues a warrant. The data/noise is now evidence against you. You are presumed guilty, and it is impossible to prove your innocence.

excuse-me 14y ago
No it's very easy. You claim the "key" is a one time pad, ie an XOR of the encrypted data - then you simply take the encrypted data and generate a "key" which XORs it into "the home secretary is a wonderful person and i support him"
- jff 14y ago
  So, perjury.
  - excuse-me 14y ago
    Not sure you can commit perjury if you are the accused !
    - Jtsummers 14y ago
      In the US you can, and I'd be surprised if many other jurisdictions saw it differently. In the US you have a right against self incrimination, not a right to lie and misdirect. See Martha Stewart as an example, part of her conviction was making false statements to an investigator.
      - CapitalistCartr 14y ago
        Martha "Stewart was found guilty in March 2004 of conspiracy, obstruction of an agency proceeding, and making false statements to federal investigator". The lying to investigators was most of her "crime". If she'd told them to talk to her lawyer and clammed up, she'd have been way ahead. The Feds never did prove securities fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Stock_trading_case_and_conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Stock_trading_c...
jrmg 14y ago
Why do you make the jump here to "you are presumed guilty"? Your guilt would have to be proved in a court just like for any other crime. Are you suggesting that the courts would somehow just believe, with no evidence, that it's encrypted data relevant to the case and you're wilfully withholding the keys?
- try-finally 14y ago
  You are not presumed guilty. But you are found guilty of breaking the new law which comes with a 5 year prison term if you were accused of being involved with terrorism or hiding child porn. Regardless of any evidence.
  - SEMW 14y ago
    > You are not presumed guilty. But you are found guilty of breaking the new law ... Regardless of any evidence. "Being found guilty... regardless of evidence" makes no sense. Part of 'being found guilty of breaking the law' involves the prosecution giving evidence that a jury thinks proves your guilt beyond reasonable doubt (inc. proving that you were in possession of a key, and so that it was actually encrypted data). s.53(3).

excuse-me 14y ago

No it's very easy. You claim the "key" is a one time pad, ie an XOR of the encrypted data - then you simply take the encrypted data and generate a "key" which XORs it into "the home secretary is a wonderful person and i support him"

jff 14y ago
So, perjury.
- excuse-me 14y ago
  Not sure you can commit perjury if you are the accused !
  - Jtsummers 14y ago
    In the US you can, and I'd be surprised if many other jurisdictions saw it differently. In the US you have a right against self incrimination, not a right to lie and misdirect. See Martha Stewart as an example, part of her conviction was making false statements to an investigator.
    - CapitalistCartr 14y ago
      Martha "Stewart was found guilty in March 2004 of conspiracy, obstruction of an agency proceeding, and making false statements to federal investigator". The lying to investigators was most of her "crime". If she'd told them to talk to her lawyer and clammed up, she'd have been way ahead. The Feds never did prove securities fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Stock_trading_case_and_conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Stock_trading_c...

jrmg 14y ago

Why do you make the jump here to "you are presumed guilty"? Your guilt would have to be proved in a court just like for any other crime. Are you suggesting that the courts would somehow just believe, with no evidence, that it's encrypted data relevant to the case and you're wilfully withholding the keys?

try-finally 14y ago
You are not presumed guilty. But you are found guilty of breaking the new law which comes with a 5 year prison term if you were accused of being involved with terrorism or hiding child porn. Regardless of any evidence.
- SEMW 14y ago
  > You are not presumed guilty. But you are found guilty of breaking the new law ... Regardless of any evidence. "Being found guilty... regardless of evidence" makes no sense. Part of 'being found guilty of breaking the law' involves the prosecution giving evidence that a jury thinks proves your guilt beyond reasonable doubt (inc. proving that you were in possession of a key, and so that it was actually encrypted data). s.53(3).