3 ms·

I'm not sure which would be easier, or if that's even a useful measure. Both seem like points of leverage to [in/de]crease supply. I think we should do everyt

I'm not sure which would be easier, or if that's even a useful measure. Both seem like points of leverage to [in/de]crease supply. I think we should do everything we can do educate, enable, and employ citizens to the highest degree of which they are capable or desire. I feel similarly about putting the talent of new immigrants to work as well, and I don't see inherent conflict there. Growing the pie can mean larger shares for all.

throwaway48476 2y ago
Not all resources can be grown like pie, notably land. Economics is the study of scarcity.
- timschmidt 2y ago
  Are you afraid of running out of land? https://johnmjennings.com/how-much-of-the-u-s-is-inhabited/ https://johnmjennings.com/how-much-of-the-u-s-is-inhabited/
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Not all land is equally habitable, and there's also important things like the environment. Farmland dirt wouldn't be blowing away if there was interspersed forests to slow the wind down. I'm tired of the infinite growth cultists who are willing to sacrifice every 2nd order effect so line can go up.
    - timschmidt 2y ago
      > I'm tired of the infinite growth cultists You sound like one of those Malthusian cultists. :P Fortunately for us all, Thomas Robert Malthus was wrong in 1798 or none of us would be here today. That he would continue to be wrong today should be no surprise. Relevant criticism of his rather gloomy take on population growth abounds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism#Criticism It seems to me like he didn't factor in the effects of the development and widespread application of new technologies to old problems.
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        As an individual I'm interested in maximizing quality of life, not maximum number of lives. And no, I am not wromg. Houston has no zoning and was able to keep growth going and build lots of new houses. Of course they did so in a flood plain. Because growth cultists are willing to sacrifice everything, even lives for growth to continue just a little longer no matter the cost.
        timschmidt 2y ago
        > And no, I am not wromg. Setting your spelling aside for the moment... You haven't said anything Malthus didn't say in 1798. I think it's fair to say standards of living have increased since.
        throwaway48476 2y ago
        Malthus wrote about zoning? >standards of living have increased since Everywhere or just in some places? There are more slaves today than in malthuses time. People usually cite the green revolution as the refutation of malthus. I see it as an engineering tradeoff. Every 2nd order effect was sacrificed for a single KPI. An economist would call them unpriced negative externalities.
        timschmidt 2y ago
        > Malthus wrote about zoning? He absolutely wrote about land use and the planning thereof. > There are more slaves today than in malthuses time. By total number of individuals, maybe (though ChatGPT seems to think otherwise). By percentage of world population, not even close. > I see it as an engineering tradeoff. I see some of that. I see both negative feedback loops and virtuous cycles of positive feedback. Constructive and destructive interference. I also see an incredible explosion of education, information availability, flexible automated manufacturing, advanced material sciences, driving of food calories toward $0, lifting of disease which robbed humanity of unfathomable time and energy, and on and on. I see world solar panel production supplying world electric demand sometime in the 2030s. I see us getting better at regenerative agriculture. Mars has as much land area as Earth, and I think we can go farther if we put our minds to it. There literally aren't limits. Except the ones we place on ourselves.

throwaway48476 2y ago

Not all resources can be grown like pie, notably land. Economics is the study of scarcity.

timschmidt 2y ago
Are you afraid of running out of land? https://johnmjennings.com/how-much-of-the-u-s-is-inhabited/ https://johnmjennings.com/how-much-of-the-u-s-is-inhabited/
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Not all land is equally habitable, and there's also important things like the environment. Farmland dirt wouldn't be blowing away if there was interspersed forests to slow the wind down. I'm tired of the infinite growth cultists who are willing to sacrifice every 2nd order effect so line can go up.
  - timschmidt 2y ago
    > I'm tired of the infinite growth cultists You sound like one of those Malthusian cultists. :P Fortunately for us all, Thomas Robert Malthus was wrong in 1798 or none of us would be here today. That he would continue to be wrong today should be no surprise. Relevant criticism of his rather gloomy take on population growth abounds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism#Criticism It seems to me like he didn't factor in the effects of the development and widespread application of new technologies to old problems.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      As an individual I'm interested in maximizing quality of life, not maximum number of lives. And no, I am not wromg. Houston has no zoning and was able to keep growth going and build lots of new houses. Of course they did so in a flood plain. Because growth cultists are willing to sacrifice everything, even lives for growth to continue just a little longer no matter the cost.
      - timschmidt 2y ago
        > And no, I am not wromg. Setting your spelling aside for the moment... You haven't said anything Malthus didn't say in 1798. I think it's fair to say standards of living have increased since.
        throwaway48476 2y ago
        Malthus wrote about zoning? >standards of living have increased since Everywhere or just in some places? There are more slaves today than in malthuses time. People usually cite the green revolution as the refutation of malthus. I see it as an engineering tradeoff. Every 2nd order effect was sacrificed for a single KPI. An economist would call them unpriced negative externalities.
        timschmidt 2y ago
        > Malthus wrote about zoning? He absolutely wrote about land use and the planning thereof. > There are more slaves today than in malthuses time. By total number of individuals, maybe (though ChatGPT seems to think otherwise). By percentage of world population, not even close. > I see it as an engineering tradeoff. I see some of that. I see both negative feedback loops and virtuous cycles of positive feedback. Constructive and destructive interference. I also see an incredible explosion of education, information availability, flexible automated manufacturing, advanced material sciences, driving of food calories toward $0, lifting of disease which robbed humanity of unfathomable time and energy, and on and on. I see world solar panel production supplying world electric demand sometime in the 2030s. I see us getting better at regenerative agriculture. Mars has as much land area as Earth, and I think we can go farther if we put our minds to it. There literally aren't limits. Except the ones we place on ourselves.