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>As engineers, it's our responsibility to keep the fox strong and help it reclaim the popularity it once enjoyed. That's the problem: Mozilla makes ~590 millio

>As engineers, it's our responsibility to keep the fox strong and help it reclaim the popularity it once enjoyed. That's the problem: Mozilla makes ~590 million, but the vast majority is not for engineers, but for: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/women-in-ai-ethics-explores-building-trustworthy-ai-with-mozilla/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/women-in-ai-ethics-ex... Not to mention firing a CEO with cancer, throwing a Party (Feminist, Decolonial, LGBTQIA+, Climate Justice using Al) in Zambia (no joke) after firing 1/3 of the staff and so on. Firefox/Mozilla is the best paid OSS project (apart from Linux), but spends most of the money on non-technical stuff (same with the Linux Foundation). Mozilla.org/Mozilla is now a Ad-Company not a OSS-Project.

2Gkashmiri 2y ago
please look at their financials. how much money they spend on salary, remuneration to managers, administrative and finally moonshots. besides, how would YOU finance to pay around 1200-1800 employees (from my initial online search) salaries that are competitive to Facebook and google or microsoft? why would someone work at mozilla for less money when they could work in the same city at a bigger office for more cash? now, if mozilla took to employing foreigners, like from asia, they could reduce their salary spend by 5-10 times which would make them less dependent on external funding or employ 5-8 times many people for same money. point is, building a browser takes money so how will YOU finance the company/non profit if you were given the charge edit: also, how much would you consider your remuneration be commensurate to the level of work you are putting in?
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  >point is, building a browser takes money so how will YOU finance the company/non profit if you were given the charge My point is that they dont invest it into the browser but: >managers, administrative and finally moonshots. >how would YOU finance to pay around 1200-1800 employees Get rid of most of the non-technical staff and work on the software you get your donations for. Out with the leeches, in with the makers, it's software, not a political campaign. Google Chrome has/had ~23 paid developers, then we bring back the MDN team, let's say 8 people, administrative stuff 5 for a total of 36 people, let's double that because we have $590 million to spend and round it up to 80 people, okay? But hey, look at that ("Firefox Maker Rebrands as 'Global Crew of Activists'"), this is where the money is going: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJ5emSxK7A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJ5emSxK7A
  - snapplebobapple 2y ago
    pretty much this. Firefox is the twitter of software projects. You can Elon the workforce and end up way better off releasing features people care about again if you get a decent elon knockoff to skillfully fire everybody.
    - BSDobelix 2y ago
      Sorry you got voted down, it's not right.
      - snapplebobapple 2y ago
        I knew it was going to happen and said it anyway. This place doesn't like truth when that truth is they or someone they know should be unemployed. What's the point of getting upvoted if you don't spend those points getting downvoted where it matters? Side note, one thing that is good about this place is the downvoting is never that crazy, maybe -5 worst case most of the time. Reddit is far more expensive to say true things that are uncomfortable and that's a big problem.
  - jsnell 2y ago
    > Google Chrome has/had ~23 paid developers, If you believe this, you maybe shouldn't be making claims about the economics of browser development. That's off by ludicrous amounts.
    - BSDobelix 2y ago
      2019: >Chrome, with an emphasis on making the web great for the next billion users. The team consists of around 40 engineers, in addition to a number of PMs, test engineers, UX designers, researchers, and others. We built a lot of features in Chrome that are used by more than a billion people.) https://mdwdotla.medium.com/some-thoughts-on-running-successful-teams-at-google-c06124959205 https://mdwdotla.medium.com/some-thoughts-on-running-success... "MY" Mozilla has 46 engineers ;) But if you think ludicrous big teams can make "much" product you should read "The Mythical Man-Month"..again ;) The ~23 was from 2012, sorry about the outdated information
sheepdestroyer 2y ago
According to Mozilla's financial filings, CEO Mitchell Baker's compensation increased from $5,591,406 in 2021 to $6,903,089 in 2022. During that period, Mozilla's revenues – long dominated by payments from Google to make it Firefox's default search – dipped from $527,585,000 to $510,389,000 [...] "Fully 30 percent of all expenditure goes on administration" [1] In 2018, Baker received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, a 400% payrise since 2008. Over the same period, Firefox market share was down 85%. [..] In 2020, after returning to the position of CEO, Baker's salary rose to in excess of $3 million. In 2021, her salary rose again to more than $5 million, and again to nearly $7 million in 2022). In August 2020 the Mozilla Corporation laid off approximately 250 employees due to shrinking revenues, after previously laying off roughly 70 in January [2] I'm of the opinion that there should exist mechanisms for nonprofits to reclaim ill gotten remuneration from ex CEOs [1] https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/09/mozilla_ceo_mitchell_baker_departs https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/09/mozilla_ceo_mitchell_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  >I'm of the opinion that there should exist mechanisms for non-profits to reclaim ill gotten remuneration from ex CEOs Absolutely on your side, also the foggy connection between Mozilla Corporation and Mozilla.org leaves a sour taste.
- hitekker 2y ago
  Unfortunately, many Ex-Mozilla people thought she deserved the money. They loved Mitchell Baker's focus on culture: Mozilla's progressive social causes and performances. They loved their culture more than their business and their own browser. Like other companies in the ZIRP era, the staff wanted a fun tech company culture that made them feel like they were good people. Even great people. They preferred a celebrity CEO with pleasant illusions over a business leader with hard truths.

2Gkashmiri 2y ago

please look at their financials. how much money they spend on salary, remuneration to managers, administrative and finally moonshots. besides, how would YOU finance to pay around 1200-1800 employees (from my initial online search) salaries that are competitive to Facebook and google or microsoft? why would someone work at mozilla for less money when they could work in the same city at a bigger office for more cash? now, if mozilla took to employing foreigners, like from asia, they could reduce their salary spend by 5-10 times which would make them less dependent on external funding or employ 5-8 times many people for same money. point is, building a browser takes money so how will YOU finance the company/non profit if you were given the charge edit: also, how much would you consider your remuneration be commensurate to the level of work you are putting in?

BSDobelix 2y ago
>point is, building a browser takes money so how will YOU finance the company/non profit if you were given the charge My point is that they dont invest it into the browser but: >managers, administrative and finally moonshots. >how would YOU finance to pay around 1200-1800 employees Get rid of most of the non-technical staff and work on the software you get your donations for. Out with the leeches, in with the makers, it's software, not a political campaign. Google Chrome has/had ~23 paid developers, then we bring back the MDN team, let's say 8 people, administrative stuff 5 for a total of 36 people, let's double that because we have $590 million to spend and round it up to 80 people, okay? But hey, look at that ("Firefox Maker Rebrands as 'Global Crew of Activists'"), this is where the money is going: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJ5emSxK7A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJ5emSxK7A
- snapplebobapple 2y ago
  pretty much this. Firefox is the twitter of software projects. You can Elon the workforce and end up way better off releasing features people care about again if you get a decent elon knockoff to skillfully fire everybody.
  - BSDobelix 2y ago
    Sorry you got voted down, it's not right.
    - snapplebobapple 2y ago
      I knew it was going to happen and said it anyway. This place doesn't like truth when that truth is they or someone they know should be unemployed. What's the point of getting upvoted if you don't spend those points getting downvoted where it matters? Side note, one thing that is good about this place is the downvoting is never that crazy, maybe -5 worst case most of the time. Reddit is far more expensive to say true things that are uncomfortable and that's a big problem.
- jsnell 2y ago
  > Google Chrome has/had ~23 paid developers, If you believe this, you maybe shouldn't be making claims about the economics of browser development. That's off by ludicrous amounts.
  - BSDobelix 2y ago
    2019: >Chrome, with an emphasis on making the web great for the next billion users. The team consists of around 40 engineers, in addition to a number of PMs, test engineers, UX designers, researchers, and others. We built a lot of features in Chrome that are used by more than a billion people.) https://mdwdotla.medium.com/some-thoughts-on-running-successful-teams-at-google-c06124959205 https://mdwdotla.medium.com/some-thoughts-on-running-success... "MY" Mozilla has 46 engineers ;) But if you think ludicrous big teams can make "much" product you should read "The Mythical Man-Month"..again ;) The ~23 was from 2012, sorry about the outdated information

sheepdestroyer 2y ago

According to Mozilla's financial filings, CEO Mitchell Baker's compensation increased from $5,591,406 in 2021 to $6,903,089 in 2022. During that period, Mozilla's revenues – long dominated by payments from Google to make it Firefox's default search – dipped from $527,585,000 to $510,389,000 [...] "Fully 30 percent of all expenditure goes on administration" [1] In 2018, Baker received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, a 400% payrise since 2008. Over the same period, Firefox market share was down 85%. [..] In 2020, after returning to the position of CEO, Baker's salary rose to in excess of $3 million. In 2021, her salary rose again to more than $5 million, and again to nearly $7 million in 2022). In August 2020 the Mozilla Corporation laid off approximately 250 employees due to shrinking revenues, after previously laying off roughly 70 in January [2] I'm of the opinion that there should exist mechanisms for nonprofits to reclaim ill gotten remuneration from ex CEOs [1] https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/09/mozilla_ceo_mitchell_baker_departs https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/09/mozilla_ceo_mitchell_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker

BSDobelix 2y ago
>I'm of the opinion that there should exist mechanisms for non-profits to reclaim ill gotten remuneration from ex CEOs Absolutely on your side, also the foggy connection between Mozilla Corporation and Mozilla.org leaves a sour taste.
hitekker 2y ago
Unfortunately, many Ex-Mozilla people thought she deserved the money. They loved Mitchell Baker's focus on culture: Mozilla's progressive social causes and performances. They loved their culture more than their business and their own browser. Like other companies in the ZIRP era, the staff wanted a fun tech company culture that made them feel like they were good people. Even great people. They preferred a celebrity CEO with pleasant illusions over a business leader with hard truths.