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> No influence doesn't exist in any country. There are laws to limit this, whether they limit campaign funding or the involvement of certain persons. In the Ro

> No influence doesn't exist in any country. There are laws to limit this, whether they limit campaign funding or the involvement of certain persons. In the Romanian case, the argument is not whether the right candidate won, it is whether campaigning laws were broken. > In France during the first elections Macron was elected, he was pushed heavily by the media. This canard again. Prove that something unlawful happened, and then you can talk. If you are butt hurt because Marine cannot win an elections then be relieved: she’s likely to become ineligible for 5 years and a candidate that might be able to win the damn thing will have some room instead. If your pet politician is Mélenchon then lol is all I can say. He’s a reason why France is in this shite in the first place. > Those are example of "state-actor" level influence on elections, but somehow it's supposed to be fine because it was supporting the "good" candidate. This is completely off-base and intentionally misleading. The media endorsing candidates is nothing like state actors at play. > Democracy in unironically in danger, but not for the reasons often voiced. Yeah. Not for the reasons you mention either. The fact that so many people keep repeating these bullshit arguments is part of the problem. Macron would not have had a chance had the others not thoroughly undermined the system for at least a decade before he showed up.

tsimionescu 2y ago
> In the Romanian case, the argument is not whether the right candidate won, it is whether campaigning laws were broken. > Prove that something unlawful happened, and then you can talk. Why this double standard? In the Romanian case, nothing has been proven. There are precisely two one-page long reports from secret services saying there were irregularities favoring this candidate. This is barely enough evidence to even start a prosecution, nevermind issue a final judicial decision to overturn an almost finished election. I'm as happy as anyone with half a brain that Călin Georgescu is not our next President. But the way the courts went about this is undeniably illegal.
- Al-Khwarizmi 2y ago
  > I'm as happy as anyone with half a brain that Călin Georgescu is not our next President. Aren't you worried about actually getting him (or some pal of his) as president due to the Streisand effect? I don't know much specifically about Romanian politics, but in general this kind of thing can help rather than harm a politician. He can now claim to be a martyr of the establishment and an opponent of authoritarianism.
  - tsimionescu 2y ago
    In principle, I agree, which is one of the reasons that I think this was a horrible decision. On the other hand, the court has just shown that it's willing to redo the entire electoral process if the elections don't go the right way. Călin Georgescu will certainly not be allowed to run again. One of the other hard right wing candidates (Diana Șoșoacă) had already been disqualified, for even flimsier reasons, and I don't expect she will be allowed to register either. There is only one far right candidate left (George Simion) - I suspect that they can find reasons to exclude him too. Whether people might rise up against this or not is unclear. I was dreading some violence last night, but not even a handful of those who had voted with Georgescu, or the far right parties, have taken to the streets (thankfully) so who knows.
JPLeRouzic 2y ago
> In France during the first elections Macron was elected, he was pushed heavily by the media. > This canard again. Prove that something unlawful happened Nobody can prove that, but it wouldn't be the first time that alien powers would interfere in French elections, beginning with USA. There is a long list of US interferences in France on Wikipedia [2] and CIA was very active recently in France [3] * in XXth century: Monnet, Bastien-Thiry, Guy Mollet, Antoine Pinay, Maurice Faure, Jean Lecanuet, François Mitterrand [0], Algiers putsch [1] [0] https://www.revueconflits.com/soft-power-de-gaulle-washington-eric-branca/ https://www.revueconflits.com/soft-power-de-gaulle-washingto... [1] https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/rendez-vous-avec-x/le-putsch-d-alger-et-la-cia-5939099 https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/rendez-vous-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_France [3] https://wikileaks.org/cia-france-elections-2012/ https://wikileaks.org/cia-france-elections-2012/

tsimionescu 2y ago

> In the Romanian case, the argument is not whether the right candidate won, it is whether campaigning laws were broken. > Prove that something unlawful happened, and then you can talk. Why this double standard? In the Romanian case, nothing has been proven. There are precisely two one-page long reports from secret services saying there were irregularities favoring this candidate. This is barely enough evidence to even start a prosecution, nevermind issue a final judicial decision to overturn an almost finished election. I'm as happy as anyone with half a brain that Călin Georgescu is not our next President. But the way the courts went about this is undeniably illegal.

Al-Khwarizmi 2y ago
> I'm as happy as anyone with half a brain that Călin Georgescu is not our next President. Aren't you worried about actually getting him (or some pal of his) as president due to the Streisand effect? I don't know much specifically about Romanian politics, but in general this kind of thing can help rather than harm a politician. He can now claim to be a martyr of the establishment and an opponent of authoritarianism.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  In principle, I agree, which is one of the reasons that I think this was a horrible decision. On the other hand, the court has just shown that it's willing to redo the entire electoral process if the elections don't go the right way. Călin Georgescu will certainly not be allowed to run again. One of the other hard right wing candidates (Diana Șoșoacă) had already been disqualified, for even flimsier reasons, and I don't expect she will be allowed to register either. There is only one far right candidate left (George Simion) - I suspect that they can find reasons to exclude him too. Whether people might rise up against this or not is unclear. I was dreading some violence last night, but not even a handful of those who had voted with Georgescu, or the far right parties, have taken to the streets (thankfully) so who knows.

JPLeRouzic 2y ago

> In France during the first elections Macron was elected, he was pushed heavily by the media. > This canard again. Prove that something unlawful happened Nobody can prove that, but it wouldn't be the first time that alien powers would interfere in French elections, beginning with USA. There is a long list of US interferences in France on Wikipedia [2] and CIA was very active recently in France [3] * in XXth century: Monnet, Bastien-Thiry, Guy Mollet, Antoine Pinay, Maurice Faure, Jean Lecanuet, François Mitterrand [0], Algiers putsch [1] [0] https://www.revueconflits.com/soft-power-de-gaulle-washington-eric-branca/ https://www.revueconflits.com/soft-power-de-gaulle-washingto... [1] https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/rendez-vous-avec-x/le-putsch-d-alger-et-la-cia-5939099 https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/rendez-vous-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_France [3] https://wikileaks.org/cia-france-elections-2012/ https://wikileaks.org/cia-france-elections-2012/