5 ms·

My wife and I always say that the most dangerous show on television is "House Hunters International". "I need a 3 bedroom apartment with a full kitchen in the

by bane 2y ago

My wife and I always say that the most dangerous show on television is "House Hunters International". "I need a 3 bedroom apartment with a full kitchen in the village center, with at least parking for one car, I have a budget of $300/mo". "Here's at least three options" It also bring up a kind of discomfort between us, as tech workers, and regular people. The quantity of money we can earn, even at the lower end in the U.S., is unfathomable. It makes us want to go places and spend somewhat frivolously to support local businesses. We were recently in Portugal. There's a ton of trendy food spots with prices near what we'd pay in HCOL U.S., but there's a ton of really local, mom 'n pop places, with absolutely incredibly prices, and they're incredibly appreciative of your business. One place we frequented was maybe a 30 second walk from a very trendy tourist district, but served local food at very local prices. Ubers were lined up to drop people to go overpay for mediocre food in the district, literally on the street next to where we were eating. If they would have just taken a moment, they could have come and had a great relaxed meal and support some locals for almost next to nothing.

consf 2y ago
[dead]
szundi 2y ago
I second this, I had a seabass with potatoes for 5.5 eurs some years ago... not the nicest environment but it was clean and the food was delicious.
Simon_ORourke 2y ago
> We were recently in Portugal. There's a ton of trendy food spots with prices near what we'd pay in HCOL U.S., but there's a ton of really local, mom 'n pop places, with absolutely incredibly prices, and they're incredibly appreciative of your business. I hear that - last time I was in Lisbon I got breakfast in one of those kind of places and had to ask the cashier if they made a mistake with the change and had given me back too much. Like literally, they could have charged double I would have accepted it as a fair price for a nice meal.
eps 2y ago
> One place we frequented Got a name?
- bane 2y ago
  O Golfinho, literally right outside of LxFactory. You'd have to work hard to spend more than 12 euros a person. Simple, local food. Lots of specials (soup, sandwich, fries, beer for like 9-10 euro). Run by an older couple who spoke no English and treated us like we were their niece and nephew. I think both of us got in and out of there for under 20 euro combined. For a bit higher-end, we liked Cantinho do Sol near the Marques De Pombal circle. I think we spent maybe 20-25 euros a person there, were stuffed to the gills, and nearly drown in our drinks. Employees were lovely Brazilians in the front of house and the owner, a local I think, was the chef.
  - eps 2y ago
    Woah, looks very nice, thanks. Noted for the future visit. > For a bit higher-end You've been to the TimeOut Market? Very busy, touristy, but good selection of local specialties. Same price range, more or less.
    - bane 2y ago
      No, but nice looking recommendation for our next time there!
cactusplant7374 2y ago
I have only met poor retirees when living abroad. The sort of people that have never been abroad before but love the low prices (and spend most of their time talking about it). I don’t think the House Hunters demographic has much money.
- swiftcoder 2y ago
  There are plenty of wealthy (by local standards) US retirees floating around the cheaper parts of Europe. The sort of folks who bought a house in New England in the 80's, and now it sold for a couple of million in cash - that sort of money goes a long way in a place like Spain or Portugal
- tzs 2y ago
  As I near retirement I've thought about moving somewhere else, but never really thought about that someplace else being outside the US. But thinking about it, I think there are several other countries that would actually fit in well with most of what I'd need for a pleasant retirement. US citizens who retire abroad can still collect US Social Security so going abroad wouldn't affect my retirement income. But what about healthcare? How do non-rich US citizens who retire abroad deal with that? There are actually two aspects to that--how do you get healthcare abroad, and if you later move back to the US are there problems getting on Medicare?
  - bane 2y ago
    > But what about healthcare? How do non-rich US citizens who retire abroad deal with that? You should look into it. It very much depends on the country. But typically you just start paying taxes or fees or whatnot into whatever the national system is in place. Most countries will require you to have proof of some type of outside insurance before immigrating. There are overseas specific health insurance plans you can get on -- typically not very expensive because healthcare in the rest of the world isn't insane. [1] Most countries also have a cash-only payment schedule. Unlike the U.S., fees for health services are typically known up front. In any case, even paying cash, you're likely to find healthcare outside of the U.S. (in tier-1 countries like the EU, Japan, Korea, etc.) to be high quality and very low cost -- often cheaper than healthcare in the U.S. with insurance. 1 - https://www.aetnainternational.com/ https://www.aetnainternational.com/
secondcoming 2y ago
That's great, unless you're a young person in Portugal being priced out of accomodation due to wealthy foreigners.
- bane 2y ago
  Yeah, we were sensitive to that fact. It's unfortunate. We came across more than a couple business owners who had side hustles as property speculators. One owner basically said that he's buying whatever he can get his hands on since there's a guaranteed return. As tourists we're of course part of the problem, but we're also a lot of the economy. I think Lisbon is also somewhat in a problem like San Francisco, constrained geography, and paradise for the climate, all creating very high demand from people who have the money. People with money will simply outpay people with less to live in more desirable areas. It doesn't help that Portugal also has very cheap/easy long-term/permanent visa programs which doesn't help. They're almost one of the easiest ones globally that also gets you into the EU. https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/portugal-residency-visa/ https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/portugal-residency-vi...
  - zemvpferreira 2y ago
    As a Lisbon native, please don't feel like you're part of the problem. We've painted ourselves into a corner by failing to build more than a couple of thousand homes per year for a decade. I'm not even exaggerating, a few thousand new units per year is our current rate of building as a mega-popular European capital, home to 3 million people. At the same time as we've completely failed to expand housing stock, we invented a new visa to allow wealthy foreigners to immigrate without a hitch. Then later a new visa to allow anyone who wanted to immigrate without a hitch (which about 600k people from developing economies took advantage of in the last five years). There is nothing about our situation that has been worsened by tourism. It's the one economic sector driving the country forwards and I'm personally very grateful it has developed so much. A large part of my extended network can only make ends meet because of jobs created by tourism.
    - secondcoming 2y ago
Der_Einzige 2y ago
The trivial ability to use even a small fraction of this wealth to improve a huge amount of lives is exactly what the “effective altruist” crowd should be creaming themselves over. The fact that I can buy a house in Thailand for something insanely cheap also means that I can make sure that the local school has whatever they need, for basically just a haircut. You can take the local orphanage and make sure hundreds of kids are comfortable for hundreds of USD a month.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  USD and EUR are in for a massive correction in foreign exchange value. It's not like a dollar earned in reality is worth ten times more than what a person in Thailand earns. So enjoy it while it lasts. The law of supply and demand means that as the supply of USD and EUR to other countries increases, their value will decrease. Especially the EUR, which has nothing to back it up. At least the USD has the world police to back up the currency value.
  - ponector 2y ago
    Economy? No, no economy can back up EU or USA. Btw, last decade has shown USA is not a global police anymore.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      Foreign nations need USD because global trade is conducted in USD. Global leaders are arguing about this right in this very moment, BRICS feel they might leave the dollar without fear of being bombed. The EU has no military means to backup their currency exchange rate, only import and export. And if more Europeans are moving their spending abroad, that will diminish the value of EUR.
nickjj 2y ago
> but there's a ton of really local, mom 'n pop places, with absolutely incredibly prices, and they're incredibly appreciative of your business Yep, I was in Portugal back in June and was blown away by how nice it was. City life, the beach towns and overall prices of things. That was my first time going to the EU from the US. I was on vacation so I ate out every day for all meals but I don't think I paid more than $5 for breakfasts and most sit down dinners were $12-15 all-in. I splurged one night in Lisbon and had the craziest plate of sushi I've ever seen and it was $18. That was from a 4.9 rated sushi bar with ~800 reviews. My total food bill for 14 days of solo traveling was ~$475 and I wasn't purposely trying to budget. That includes randomly trying a lot of things that I normally wouldn't do like getting a fresh smoothie while walking around because why not. That food bill also includes 3 days in south western Spain because I moved around to a few cities (Seville, Spain -> Lagos, Portugal -> Lisbon, Portugal was the loop I took with day trips to a couple of places).
lobsterthief 2y ago
If it makes you feel any better, most of that show is faked. My friend was on it; she had already moved to another country and into her new apartment before applying to the show. Her apartment is where she “ended up”. They flew her back to the US, where she’s from, to do filming there and have us friends come by to throw frisbees and talk about how much they’ll miss her. It was weird.

by bane 2y ago

consf 2y ago

[dead]

szundi 2y ago

I second this, I had a seabass with potatoes for 5.5 eurs some years ago... not the nicest environment but it was clean and the food was delicious.

Simon_ORourke 2y ago

> We were recently in Portugal. There's a ton of trendy food spots with prices near what we'd pay in HCOL U.S., but there's a ton of really local, mom 'n pop places, with absolutely incredibly prices, and they're incredibly appreciative of your business. I hear that - last time I was in Lisbon I got breakfast in one of those kind of places and had to ask the cashier if they made a mistake with the change and had given me back too much. Like literally, they could have charged double I would have accepted it as a fair price for a nice meal.

eps 2y ago

> One place we frequented Got a name?

bane 2y ago
O Golfinho, literally right outside of LxFactory. You'd have to work hard to spend more than 12 euros a person. Simple, local food. Lots of specials (soup, sandwich, fries, beer for like 9-10 euro). Run by an older couple who spoke no English and treated us like we were their niece and nephew. I think both of us got in and out of there for under 20 euro combined. For a bit higher-end, we liked Cantinho do Sol near the Marques De Pombal circle. I think we spent maybe 20-25 euros a person there, were stuffed to the gills, and nearly drown in our drinks. Employees were lovely Brazilians in the front of house and the owner, a local I think, was the chef.
- eps 2y ago
  Woah, looks very nice, thanks. Noted for the future visit. > For a bit higher-end You've been to the TimeOut Market? Very busy, touristy, but good selection of local specialties. Same price range, more or less.
  - bane 2y ago
    No, but nice looking recommendation for our next time there!

cactusplant7374 2y ago

I have only met poor retirees when living abroad. The sort of people that have never been abroad before but love the low prices (and spend most of their time talking about it). I don’t think the House Hunters demographic has much money.

swiftcoder 2y ago
There are plenty of wealthy (by local standards) US retirees floating around the cheaper parts of Europe. The sort of folks who bought a house in New England in the 80's, and now it sold for a couple of million in cash - that sort of money goes a long way in a place like Spain or Portugal
tzs 2y ago
As I near retirement I've thought about moving somewhere else, but never really thought about that someplace else being outside the US. But thinking about it, I think there are several other countries that would actually fit in well with most of what I'd need for a pleasant retirement. US citizens who retire abroad can still collect US Social Security so going abroad wouldn't affect my retirement income. But what about healthcare? How do non-rich US citizens who retire abroad deal with that? There are actually two aspects to that--how do you get healthcare abroad, and if you later move back to the US are there problems getting on Medicare?
- bane 2y ago
  > But what about healthcare? How do non-rich US citizens who retire abroad deal with that? You should look into it. It very much depends on the country. But typically you just start paying taxes or fees or whatnot into whatever the national system is in place. Most countries will require you to have proof of some type of outside insurance before immigrating. There are overseas specific health insurance plans you can get on -- typically not very expensive because healthcare in the rest of the world isn't insane. [1] Most countries also have a cash-only payment schedule. Unlike the U.S., fees for health services are typically known up front. In any case, even paying cash, you're likely to find healthcare outside of the U.S. (in tier-1 countries like the EU, Japan, Korea, etc.) to be high quality and very low cost -- often cheaper than healthcare in the U.S. with insurance. 1 - https://www.aetnainternational.com/ https://www.aetnainternational.com/

secondcoming 2y ago

That's great, unless you're a young person in Portugal being priced out of accomodation due to wealthy foreigners.

bane 2y ago
Yeah, we were sensitive to that fact. It's unfortunate. We came across more than a couple business owners who had side hustles as property speculators. One owner basically said that he's buying whatever he can get his hands on since there's a guaranteed return. As tourists we're of course part of the problem, but we're also a lot of the economy. I think Lisbon is also somewhat in a problem like San Francisco, constrained geography, and paradise for the climate, all creating very high demand from people who have the money. People with money will simply outpay people with less to live in more desirable areas. It doesn't help that Portugal also has very cheap/easy long-term/permanent visa programs which doesn't help. They're almost one of the easiest ones globally that also gets you into the EU. https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/portugal-residency-visa/ https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/portugal-residency-vi...
- zemvpferreira 2y ago
  As a Lisbon native, please don't feel like you're part of the problem. We've painted ourselves into a corner by failing to build more than a couple of thousand homes per year for a decade. I'm not even exaggerating, a few thousand new units per year is our current rate of building as a mega-popular European capital, home to 3 million people. At the same time as we've completely failed to expand housing stock, we invented a new visa to allow wealthy foreigners to immigrate without a hitch. Then later a new visa to allow anyone who wanted to immigrate without a hitch (which about 600k people from developing economies took advantage of in the last five years). There is nothing about our situation that has been worsened by tourism. It's the one economic sector driving the country forwards and I'm personally very grateful it has developed so much. A large part of my extended network can only make ends meet because of jobs created by tourism.
  - secondcoming 2y ago

Der_Einzige 2y ago

The trivial ability to use even a small fraction of this wealth to improve a huge amount of lives is exactly what the “effective altruist” crowd should be creaming themselves over. The fact that I can buy a house in Thailand for something insanely cheap also means that I can make sure that the local school has whatever they need, for basically just a haircut. You can take the local orphanage and make sure hundreds of kids are comfortable for hundreds of USD a month.

carlosjobim 2y ago
USD and EUR are in for a massive correction in foreign exchange value. It's not like a dollar earned in reality is worth ten times more than what a person in Thailand earns. So enjoy it while it lasts. The law of supply and demand means that as the supply of USD and EUR to other countries increases, their value will decrease. Especially the EUR, which has nothing to back it up. At least the USD has the world police to back up the currency value.
- ponector 2y ago
  Economy? No, no economy can back up EU or USA. Btw, last decade has shown USA is not a global police anymore.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    Foreign nations need USD because global trade is conducted in USD. Global leaders are arguing about this right in this very moment, BRICS feel they might leave the dollar without fear of being bombed. The EU has no military means to backup their currency exchange rate, only import and export. And if more Europeans are moving their spending abroad, that will diminish the value of EUR.

nickjj 2y ago

> but there's a ton of really local, mom 'n pop places, with absolutely incredibly prices, and they're incredibly appreciative of your business Yep, I was in Portugal back in June and was blown away by how nice it was. City life, the beach towns and overall prices of things. That was my first time going to the EU from the US. I was on vacation so I ate out every day for all meals but I don't think I paid more than $5 for breakfasts and most sit down dinners were $12-15 all-in. I splurged one night in Lisbon and had the craziest plate of sushi I've ever seen and it was $18. That was from a 4.9 rated sushi bar with ~800 reviews. My total food bill for 14 days of solo traveling was ~$475 and I wasn't purposely trying to budget. That includes randomly trying a lot of things that I normally wouldn't do like getting a fresh smoothie while walking around because why not. That food bill also includes 3 days in south western Spain because I moved around to a few cities (Seville, Spain -> Lagos, Portugal -> Lisbon, Portugal was the loop I took with day trips to a couple of places).

lobsterthief 2y ago

If it makes you feel any better, most of that show is faked. My friend was on it; she had already moved to another country and into her new apartment before applying to the show. Her apartment is where she “ended up”. They flew her back to the US, where she’s from, to do filming there and have us friends come by to throw frisbees and talk about how much they’ll miss her. It was weird.