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the first thing I am going to tell my kid when she enters the "workforce" is that her #1 PRIORITY (she won't have any student loan debt) is to save F YOU money.

the first thing I am going to tell my kid when she enters the "workforce" is that her #1 PRIORITY (she won't have any student loan debt) is to save F YOU money. 6 months at least, 12 preferably. Life without it is terrible. Not just for the fear of losing your job and not knowing what tomorrow brings but (in my opinion) even worse - staying on a job that makes you miserable because you need that paycheck coming regularly to survive...

scorpioxy 2y ago
Does that amount qualify as "F YOU" money? I always thought it was if you have multiple years worth of savings. But I agree. Some funds to fall back on is critical. The amount is highly dependent on your situation and risk comfort level and can be argued back and forth but not having any puts you at the mercy of whatever your employer/manager decides. Or even you getting sick and unable to work for a while. And even if the former doesn't happen, the latter definitely will at some point. Though I am reading some of these comments and wondering why they'd call losing a job an end-of-the-world scenario. I've always thought people on this forum are the type of working professionals that could afford to put away a few hundred dollars a month even if they're not on SV wages. Mind you, I am not talking about an amount of money to allow you to retire but just enough to get you going for a few months until you can figure something out. Even if married and with children. That just changes the math a little bit but not the approach. Is there something I am missing?
- bdangubic 2y ago
  > Does that amount qualify as "F YOU" money? I always thought it was if you have multiple years worth of savings. F YOU money is so that if your boss/employer/... pisses you off you can tell him "F YOU" and pack your shit and leave without a single worry on your mind > The amount is highly dependent on your situation and risk comfort level and can be argued back and forth Absolutely not - it is a simple math. If I spend $10k per month, I need $60k or $120k saved to have a cushion of 6 months (or 12 months). there is no argument, I said F YOU and I am now without a care in the world and can take my time to figure out what I am going to do next without needing to stay somewhere that makes me miserable (or same if I get fired) > Is there something I am missing? "According to a YouGov survey from May 2023, only 18% of Americans have savings between $1,000 and $10,000" Now of course probably 2% of them or less are here on HN...
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    To me, F-YOU money means "enough to retire today." It means you can live your current lifestyle using just 3% of it per year, which is a pretty normal retirement draw-down rate. Anything less, and it's not really F-YOU money, it's "I can take a brief sabbatical at the cost of adding N more years of work before retirement" money.
    - scorpioxy 2y ago
      Yeah, that's closer to my understanding as well. Not necessarily retirement but a few years of runway perhaps. The 6-12 months thing I've always seen being called an "emergency fund" which in turn is different to your savings which may not be liquid.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        Yes, AND if you're using your emergency fund then you should be in an emergency mindset, not chilling out surfing in Bali.
        scorpioxy 2y ago
        Sure, I wouldn't advise taking any expensive vacations or anything of that nature. But what caught my attention were the terms "pants-on-fire emergency" and "I would be interviewing 24/7". I mean I get it would be a stressful situation and may cause anxiety or panic but having those strong emotions could also lead you to end up working in a bad workplace which would make your mental health even worse. I am not judging, but those words just left me wondering what am I missing. And this is speaking as someone with a family to support. I agree with the zen masters description though. I wouldn't be so zen about it either.
        bdangubic 2y ago
        There is a HUGE difference between emergency fund and FU$ If my lifestyle currently is: - summer vacay in Bali - two ski trips, one US, one in the Alps - eating out once per week - daily Starbucks - … FU$ means I continue doing EXACTLY this, for 6/12/18 months. Emergency fund would be I cut down all my expenses to a bare minimum until I find new source of income. Can’t say FU if I can’t go to Bali (I love Bali :) )
nunez 2y ago
Hard HARD agree I have that fund now and it completely changes how you approach work. It's going to go away once we buy a house, but my top priority will be to restore it after the deal's done. Good on you for paying their way through college; that will help a ton.

scorpioxy 2y ago

Does that amount qualify as "F YOU" money? I always thought it was if you have multiple years worth of savings. But I agree. Some funds to fall back on is critical. The amount is highly dependent on your situation and risk comfort level and can be argued back and forth but not having any puts you at the mercy of whatever your employer/manager decides. Or even you getting sick and unable to work for a while. And even if the former doesn't happen, the latter definitely will at some point. Though I am reading some of these comments and wondering why they'd call losing a job an end-of-the-world scenario. I've always thought people on this forum are the type of working professionals that could afford to put away a few hundred dollars a month even if they're not on SV wages. Mind you, I am not talking about an amount of money to allow you to retire but just enough to get you going for a few months until you can figure something out. Even if married and with children. That just changes the math a little bit but not the approach. Is there something I am missing?

bdangubic 2y ago
> Does that amount qualify as "F YOU" money? I always thought it was if you have multiple years worth of savings. F YOU money is so that if your boss/employer/... pisses you off you can tell him "F YOU" and pack your shit and leave without a single worry on your mind > The amount is highly dependent on your situation and risk comfort level and can be argued back and forth Absolutely not - it is a simple math. If I spend $10k per month, I need $60k or $120k saved to have a cushion of 6 months (or 12 months). there is no argument, I said F YOU and I am now without a care in the world and can take my time to figure out what I am going to do next without needing to stay somewhere that makes me miserable (or same if I get fired) > Is there something I am missing? "According to a YouGov survey from May 2023, only 18% of Americans have savings between $1,000 and $10,000" Now of course probably 2% of them or less are here on HN...
- ryandrake 2y ago
  To me, F-YOU money means "enough to retire today." It means you can live your current lifestyle using just 3% of it per year, which is a pretty normal retirement draw-down rate. Anything less, and it's not really F-YOU money, it's "I can take a brief sabbatical at the cost of adding N more years of work before retirement" money.
  - scorpioxy 2y ago
    Yeah, that's closer to my understanding as well. Not necessarily retirement but a few years of runway perhaps. The 6-12 months thing I've always seen being called an "emergency fund" which in turn is different to your savings which may not be liquid.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Yes, AND if you're using your emergency fund then you should be in an emergency mindset, not chilling out surfing in Bali.
      - scorpioxy 2y ago
        Sure, I wouldn't advise taking any expensive vacations or anything of that nature. But what caught my attention were the terms "pants-on-fire emergency" and "I would be interviewing 24/7". I mean I get it would be a stressful situation and may cause anxiety or panic but having those strong emotions could also lead you to end up working in a bad workplace which would make your mental health even worse. I am not judging, but those words just left me wondering what am I missing. And this is speaking as someone with a family to support. I agree with the zen masters description though. I wouldn't be so zen about it either.
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        There is a HUGE difference between emergency fund and FU$ If my lifestyle currently is: - summer vacay in Bali - two ski trips, one US, one in the Alps - eating out once per week - daily Starbucks - … FU$ means I continue doing EXACTLY this, for 6/12/18 months. Emergency fund would be I cut down all my expenses to a bare minimum until I find new source of income. Can’t say FU if I can’t go to Bali (I love Bali :) )

nunez 2y ago

Hard HARD agree I have that fund now and it completely changes how you approach work. It's going to go away once we buy a house, but my top priority will be to restore it after the deal's done. Good on you for paying their way through college; that will help a ton.