8 ms·

"We are not influenced by any foreign government, including the Chinese government." It is laughable to suggest that the basis for this ruling is anything less

"We are not influenced by any foreign government, including the Chinese government." It is laughable to suggest that the basis for this ruling is anything less than fear and paranoia about Chinese government softpower. Nothing they could have said, and no fact they could bring to bear, would change the outcome of the court, which has been predetermined, for better or worse, by the current American political climate.

UltraSane 2y ago
Search tiananmen on any app and then on TikTok. It is ridiculous that China can block all these sites but the US can't block TikTok Facebook (and Messenger) Instagram Pinterest Twitter Blogger Tumblr Tinder Blogspot New York Times The Financial Times The Economist The Wall Street Journal Bloomberg Google News Wikipedia YouTube Netflix Vimeo Google Search Bing Yahoo DuckDuckGo Messenger (and Facebook) WeChat SnapChat Telegram Signal
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  I'm no fan of TikTok but this is a really shitty argument. China can do it because China doesn't have the First Amendment, which is, you know, sort of the whole point...
  - Wowfunhappy 2y ago
    But in practice, that means the only global social network—one that is accessible in both the US and in China—is one that agrees to Chinese censorship laws. IMO, this is a massive backfire to the purpose of freedom of speech.
    - corimaith 2y ago
      paradox of intolerance rears it's head up again.
    - brookst 2y ago
      Yes? That’s how it works. Because as soon as you act like the enemy, you’re no different from them.
      - votepaunchy 2y ago
        An America without TikTok is still vastly more free than China. Our constitution is not a suicide pact.
    - oskarkk 2y ago
      Isn't there a totally separate TikTok for China? >TikTok, whose mainland Chinese and Hong Kong[3] counterpart is Douyin,[a][4] is a short-form video hosting service (...) >While TikTok and Douyin share a similar user interface, the platforms operate separately.[28][4][29] Douyin includes an in-video search feature that can search by people's faces for more videos of them, along with other features such as buying, booking hotels, and making geo-tagged reviews.[30] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok So I think even TikTok (app for non-China markets) isn't available in China.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Yep, liberalism is hard. More breaking news at 10.
  - SllX 2y ago
    Plenty of countries don't have the First Amendment that are still liberal democracies that adhere to more or less free trade principles. The PRC does it because they are totalitarian State subject to the control of the Communist Party of China and their censorship regime does not stop at the border: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_censorship_abroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_censorship_abroad
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - pelagicAustral 2y ago
    Do Americans really have a 1st amendment anymore?
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      If social media sites had identity proofing (e.g. IAL2) and you can definitely say who is saying what - then you can talk A) About “Americans” B) Freedom of Speech If TikTok bans a post from user846859347 which American’s freedom of speech are we talking about. 98.65% of shit on TT is bot-generated propaganda and removing it isn’t violating anyone’s freedom of speech
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Yes, which is why you hear them unabashedly complaining about their government nonstop.
    - UltraSane 2y ago
      Compared to China? Absolutely. Ask Gedhun Choekyi Nyima
- maxglute 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - UltraSane 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - maxglute 2y ago
      When did I suggest US didn't have sovereign right to ban tiktok? I'm merely pointing out the reality that PRC didn't specifically craft legislation to ban US platforms - they block platforms that doesn't comply with PRC laws. Whereas US has to specifically single out TikTok because TikTok complying with the same US laws as other US platforms still undermines US interests. It's fine to accept US can do what it wants, but let's not pretend they're the same thing.
      - UltraSane 2y ago
        "I'm merely pointing out the reality that PRC didn't specifically craft legislation to ban US platforms - they block platforms that doesn't comply with PRC laws" This says a lot about how restrictive Chinese laws are vs US laws.
        maxglute 2y ago
        And? It's restrictive but equal - hire 100ks of local moderators at extraordinary cost vs cheap out on human moderation and wrecklessly cause anti-social events. If anything PRC laws are prescient considering the reason they existed was lax US platform enforcement causing 2009 minority riots in PRC after which western platforms (twitter/fb) were blocked for literally refusing to censor calls for violence. Wouldn't be until NZ shooting and Rohingya genocide years later that western platforms took a page from PRC model and increased human moderation - incidentally after which when both FB and Google had internal programs to build PRC compliant services - after they learned unlimited speech is stupid, and human moderation was neccesary cost. After realizing scaling up human moderation made complying with PRC laws possible. And the only reason those initiatives failed was corporate internal drama, i.e. it wasn't PRC that stopped them from reentering market. At the end of the day - western plaforms are converging towards PRC model, not vice versa because restrictions fine. They just can't square PRC platforms operating on same local restrictions which says a lot about US laws.
- datavirtue 2y ago
  That's a hell of a lot of milieu control. Seems they are just trying to prevent an understanding and ultimately a blending of cultures and are effectively controlling language and therefore the people's world view.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    ... yes...
- nambamutta 2y ago
  [flagged]
llamaimperative 2y ago
Oh no, fear and paranoia about a dictatorial regime with extrajudicial police stations in the US to hunt down family members of domestic political dissidents putting media in front of our children's eyes 24/7 while walking around our streets with space age sensor arrays! Oh no! So unjustifiably fearful! Who could possibly take issue with such a technology!

UltraSane 2y ago

Search tiananmen on any app and then on TikTok. It is ridiculous that China can block all these sites but the US can't block TikTok Facebook (and Messenger) Instagram Pinterest Twitter Blogger Tumblr Tinder Blogspot New York Times The Financial Times The Economist The Wall Street Journal Bloomberg Google News Wikipedia YouTube Netflix Vimeo Google Search Bing Yahoo DuckDuckGo Messenger (and Facebook) WeChat SnapChat Telegram Signal

llamaimperative 2y ago
I'm no fan of TikTok but this is a really shitty argument. China can do it because China doesn't have the First Amendment, which is, you know, sort of the whole point...
- Wowfunhappy 2y ago
  But in practice, that means the only global social network—one that is accessible in both the US and in China—is one that agrees to Chinese censorship laws. IMO, this is a massive backfire to the purpose of freedom of speech.
  - corimaith 2y ago
    paradox of intolerance rears it's head up again.
  - brookst 2y ago
    Yes? That’s how it works. Because as soon as you act like the enemy, you’re no different from them.
    - votepaunchy 2y ago
      An America without TikTok is still vastly more free than China. Our constitution is not a suicide pact.
  - oskarkk 2y ago
    Isn't there a totally separate TikTok for China? >TikTok, whose mainland Chinese and Hong Kong[3] counterpart is Douyin,[a][4] is a short-form video hosting service (...) >While TikTok and Douyin share a similar user interface, the platforms operate separately.[28][4][29] Douyin includes an in-video search feature that can search by people's faces for more videos of them, along with other features such as buying, booking hotels, and making geo-tagged reviews.[30] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok So I think even TikTok (app for non-China markets) isn't available in China.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Yep, liberalism is hard. More breaking news at 10.
- SllX 2y ago
  Plenty of countries don't have the First Amendment that are still liberal democracies that adhere to more or less free trade principles. The PRC does it because they are totalitarian State subject to the control of the Communist Party of China and their censorship regime does not stop at the border: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_censorship_abroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_censorship_abroad
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- pelagicAustral 2y ago
  Do Americans really have a 1st amendment anymore?
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    If social media sites had identity proofing (e.g. IAL2) and you can definitely say who is saying what - then you can talk A) About “Americans” B) Freedom of Speech If TikTok bans a post from user846859347 which American’s freedom of speech are we talking about. 98.65% of shit on TT is bot-generated propaganda and removing it isn’t violating anyone’s freedom of speech
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Yes, which is why you hear them unabashedly complaining about their government nonstop.
  - UltraSane 2y ago
    Compared to China? Absolutely. Ask Gedhun Choekyi Nyima
maxglute 2y ago
[flagged]
- UltraSane 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - maxglute 2y ago
    When did I suggest US didn't have sovereign right to ban tiktok? I'm merely pointing out the reality that PRC didn't specifically craft legislation to ban US platforms - they block platforms that doesn't comply with PRC laws. Whereas US has to specifically single out TikTok because TikTok complying with the same US laws as other US platforms still undermines US interests. It's fine to accept US can do what it wants, but let's not pretend they're the same thing.
    - UltraSane 2y ago
      "I'm merely pointing out the reality that PRC didn't specifically craft legislation to ban US platforms - they block platforms that doesn't comply with PRC laws" This says a lot about how restrictive Chinese laws are vs US laws.
      - maxglute 2y ago
        And? It's restrictive but equal - hire 100ks of local moderators at extraordinary cost vs cheap out on human moderation and wrecklessly cause anti-social events. If anything PRC laws are prescient considering the reason they existed was lax US platform enforcement causing 2009 minority riots in PRC after which western platforms (twitter/fb) were blocked for literally refusing to censor calls for violence. Wouldn't be until NZ shooting and Rohingya genocide years later that western platforms took a page from PRC model and increased human moderation - incidentally after which when both FB and Google had internal programs to build PRC compliant services - after they learned unlimited speech is stupid, and human moderation was neccesary cost. After realizing scaling up human moderation made complying with PRC laws possible. And the only reason those initiatives failed was corporate internal drama, i.e. it wasn't PRC that stopped them from reentering market. At the end of the day - western plaforms are converging towards PRC model, not vice versa because restrictions fine. They just can't square PRC platforms operating on same local restrictions which says a lot about US laws.
datavirtue 2y ago
That's a hell of a lot of milieu control. Seems they are just trying to prevent an understanding and ultimately a blending of cultures and are effectively controlling language and therefore the people's world view.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  ... yes...
nambamutta 2y ago
[flagged]

llamaimperative 2y ago

Oh no, fear and paranoia about a dictatorial regime with extrajudicial police stations in the US to hunt down family members of domestic political dissidents putting media in front of our children's eyes 24/7 while walking around our streets with space age sensor arrays! Oh no! So unjustifiably fearful! Who could possibly take issue with such a technology!