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anecdata is no substitute for controlled studies. This study says fructose may have cancer implications, and Steve Jobs did focus on consuming fruit before he d

anecdata is no substitute for controlled studies. This study says fructose may have cancer implications, and Steve Jobs did focus on consuming fruit before he died of cancer. That there were treatments available that he forwent is immaterial, he's still a fructose datapoint in this context. i hate nerd tunnel vision. "I know a lot about some related things so I must know the answer.

swatcoder 2y ago
With respect, it's absurdly more specious and naive to go from "mouse study suggests contigent relationship between fructose and cancer cell behavior as seen in the specific limited models of the study, inviting further research" to "Public figure with especially agressive and entirely unrelated cancer reportedly ate something that happens to contain fructose and eventually died! Same thing!"
- lambdaba 2y ago
  He didn't just eat some fruit, he ate ONLY fruit and JUICED it. He MEGADOSED on fruit.
  - swatcoder 2y ago
    That still doesn't inform us in any way that directly relates to the study. In the big picture of cancer research, there are countless caveats and idiosycracies because most cancers are more different from each other than they are similar. This is only amplified when you're trying to make inferences about dietary consumption, where interactions between coincident foodstuffs have large chaotic effects and species (and individuals) often have different digestive behavior on the way from dietary food to some intracellular interaction. Ignoring all that inherent, acknowledged, complexity so that one might harp on some dead punching bag whose story is only known through the lens of commercial media is about as anti-scientific as you could be.
    - fsckboy 2y ago
      nobody here was drawing vast conclusions from Steve Jobs eating fruit; there is nothing for you to deflate Just as celebrities with diseases can draw attention to that disease, for the good with regard to other sufferers, a study about fructose and cancer can draw attention to "Steve Jobs diet was fructose". Attention drawn. There's nothing you can do about it. And you are not debunking anything because nobody asserted anything except a single fact; you're just shouting in a mirror about how clever you are.
throw646577 2y ago
> anecdata is no substitute for controlled studies. Using Steve Jobs as an example is also anecdata. > That there were treatments available that he forwent is immaterial Is it really? > i hate nerd tunnel vision I don't hate anyone but if I did, I'd probably start with people who don't extend compassion and understanding where it costs nothing to do so.
- meiraleal 2y ago
  Compassion is not an excuse for a Reality distortion field. This killed Steve Jobs and might kill many more.
  - throw646577 2y ago
    Pancreatic cancer killed him, you absolute nitwit.
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      calling people names won't change the fact that his life-long diet caused his cancer and killed him. You should read what the research is saying in place of being here offending people that by their personal experience agrees with the finding that "fructose in diet enhances tumor growth". You are not the only person with experience with this kind of cancer in the family and have no compassion for the many sugar addicts going through cancer getting served fruit juice when they go to the hospital, which is poison for them.
      - throw646577 2y ago
        > the fact that his life-long diet caused his cancer and killed him It's not even a fact that it was a life-long diet. It's certainly not a known fact that it caused his cancer. You don't know. Nobody knows.
      - pell 2y ago
        > calling people names won't change the fact that his life-long diet caused his cancer and killed him. Steve Jobs was not a life-long fruitarian. He dabbled in all sorts of different diets. According to Walter Isaacson’s biography he seems to have generally lived as a pescatarian. Interestingly enough that diet is considered one of the healthier ones. Obviously Steve Jobs should not have delayed his surgery. I understand that people are angry that a man with his means was still able to get a transplant and all the medical care that is unavailable for the rest of us. I understand. However to assume that his disease (and death) was the result of a diet choice when there is no credible evidence for it seems rather absurd.
pen2l 2y ago
Fructose in fruits is trapped inside webs of fiber, the gut can more capably deal with fructose in this form vs. fructose found in candy or soda. GP is more right than wrong.
- meiraleal 2y ago
  > Fructose in fruits is trapped inside webs of fiber, the gut can more capably deal with fructose in this form that's bro science. With or without fiber, fructose will be separated and metabolized by the liver and go through the cycle described by the research. Read the thing.
  - pen2l 2y ago
    This comment is a perfect example of what the origin of complete nonsense with sticking power looks like on the internet: a couple insults and denigrations, a refutal without substantiation, and a confident suggestion for one to do their own research (of course without providing a reference study from a journal of consideration) and calling it a day. Fructose from whole fruits is processed and metabolized differently. Indeed fructose trapped inside fiber will take some time to be digested, and a sharp blood spike is prevented. Sugar from fruits is not bad in the way sugar from soda is bad. https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001.abstract https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001.abstract
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      Just read the research of the post, could you?

swatcoder 2y ago

With respect, it's absurdly more specious and naive to go from "mouse study suggests contigent relationship between fructose and cancer cell behavior as seen in the specific limited models of the study, inviting further research" to "Public figure with especially agressive and entirely unrelated cancer reportedly ate something that happens to contain fructose and eventually died! Same thing!"

lambdaba 2y ago
He didn't just eat some fruit, he ate ONLY fruit and JUICED it. He MEGADOSED on fruit.
- swatcoder 2y ago
  That still doesn't inform us in any way that directly relates to the study. In the big picture of cancer research, there are countless caveats and idiosycracies because most cancers are more different from each other than they are similar. This is only amplified when you're trying to make inferences about dietary consumption, where interactions between coincident foodstuffs have large chaotic effects and species (and individuals) often have different digestive behavior on the way from dietary food to some intracellular interaction. Ignoring all that inherent, acknowledged, complexity so that one might harp on some dead punching bag whose story is only known through the lens of commercial media is about as anti-scientific as you could be.
  - fsckboy 2y ago
    nobody here was drawing vast conclusions from Steve Jobs eating fruit; there is nothing for you to deflate Just as celebrities with diseases can draw attention to that disease, for the good with regard to other sufferers, a study about fructose and cancer can draw attention to "Steve Jobs diet was fructose". Attention drawn. There's nothing you can do about it. And you are not debunking anything because nobody asserted anything except a single fact; you're just shouting in a mirror about how clever you are.

throw646577 2y ago

> anecdata is no substitute for controlled studies. Using Steve Jobs as an example is also anecdata. > That there were treatments available that he forwent is immaterial Is it really? > i hate nerd tunnel vision I don't hate anyone but if I did, I'd probably start with people who don't extend compassion and understanding where it costs nothing to do so.

meiraleal 2y ago
Compassion is not an excuse for a Reality distortion field. This killed Steve Jobs and might kill many more.
- throw646577 2y ago
  Pancreatic cancer killed him, you absolute nitwit.
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    calling people names won't change the fact that his life-long diet caused his cancer and killed him. You should read what the research is saying in place of being here offending people that by their personal experience agrees with the finding that "fructose in diet enhances tumor growth". You are not the only person with experience with this kind of cancer in the family and have no compassion for the many sugar addicts going through cancer getting served fruit juice when they go to the hospital, which is poison for them.
    - throw646577 2y ago
      > the fact that his life-long diet caused his cancer and killed him It's not even a fact that it was a life-long diet. It's certainly not a known fact that it caused his cancer. You don't know. Nobody knows.
    - pell 2y ago
      > calling people names won't change the fact that his life-long diet caused his cancer and killed him. Steve Jobs was not a life-long fruitarian. He dabbled in all sorts of different diets. According to Walter Isaacson’s biography he seems to have generally lived as a pescatarian. Interestingly enough that diet is considered one of the healthier ones. Obviously Steve Jobs should not have delayed his surgery. I understand that people are angry that a man with his means was still able to get a transplant and all the medical care that is unavailable for the rest of us. I understand. However to assume that his disease (and death) was the result of a diet choice when there is no credible evidence for it seems rather absurd.

pen2l 2y ago

Fructose in fruits is trapped inside webs of fiber, the gut can more capably deal with fructose in this form vs. fructose found in candy or soda. GP is more right than wrong.

meiraleal 2y ago
> Fructose in fruits is trapped inside webs of fiber, the gut can more capably deal with fructose in this form that's bro science. With or without fiber, fructose will be separated and metabolized by the liver and go through the cycle described by the research. Read the thing.
- pen2l 2y ago
  This comment is a perfect example of what the origin of complete nonsense with sticking power looks like on the internet: a couple insults and denigrations, a refutal without substantiation, and a confident suggestion for one to do their own research (of course without providing a reference study from a journal of consideration) and calling it a day. Fructose from whole fruits is processed and metabolized differently. Indeed fructose trapped inside fiber will take some time to be digested, and a sharp blood spike is prevented. Sugar from fruits is not bad in the way sugar from soda is bad. https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001.abstract https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001.abstract
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    Just read the research of the post, could you?