4 ms·

The problem is simple, either that astroturfing is so effective because it's rooted in truth and resonates with the issues the electors are concerned with, or e

The problem is simple, either that astroturfing is so effective because it's rooted in truth and resonates with the issues the electors are concerned with, or electors are so easily influenceable that we can't have democracy without giving up free speech. Pick one.

sebastianz 2y ago
There are electoral laws that state how political advertising can be done, and how it can be funded for an election campaign. Social media companies have to adhere to these laws - for example to say when something is an "Ad" paid by someone for the benefit of the candidate. In this case, apparently although TikTok was notified that a bot network controlled and paid for by nobody-knows-who was spamming election ads (untagged as such), and they ignored everything. This is all illegal.
RealityVoid 2y ago
Nothing this dude said is rooted in truth. It's just we're so stupid we'd turn out country into a dictatorship for nothing. There are real grievances, no doubt, but this guy was so full of hot air there is no reasonable explanation for buying into him except us being irreparably dumb.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  Just read the room, the far-right is winning across all of Europe, not just in Romania. It'd be more extraordinary if the left won the elections.
ricardobeat 2y ago
> we can't have democracy without giving up free speech Social media does NOT equal free speech. It’s clear by now that giving everyone “equal standing” in the ability to reach millions is a recipe for disaster, manipulation, hysteria, amplification of extremism, mental health decline, and so on… traditional media had social constraints and we need those back.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  > traditional media had social constraints and we need those back Sure, let's go back to only governments and bilionaires having access to media, that was so much better.
  - data_maan 2y ago
    But the people that now supposedly defend free speech all ARE billionaires. Musk is a free speech absolutist (his words), yet biases his own companies algo to shove more of his stuff down my digital throat. I guess everyone is free to say stuff, but not everyone is free to see what people that are non-Musk writing? So much for free speech and billionaires.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    "Social media" is dominated by billionaires far more than "traditional" media ever was. Zuckerberg is worth 10 times what Rupert Murdoch is. Musk 30 x. And Murdoch is a huge outlier. Most traditional media is barely holding on by a shoestring.
    - ossobuco 2y ago
      And yet, my comments and posts can reach thousands of viewers with very little effort. There's no way I could do that with traditional media.
      - ricardobeat 2y ago
        And that is a good thing. That’s the whole point. You should go through a few layers of validation (journalist who has professional ethics, a publishing company with legal responsibility, etc). Especially if yours is a reasonable and polite voice. The guy who screams murder daily, spreads blood-boiling fake news and constantly causes controversy is gonna beat you by miles.
        ossobuco 2y ago
xxs 2y ago
The free speech is a US thing. Most EU countries do have freedom of expression, but not 'free', speech. It comes from "European Convention on Human Rights" which has some limitations.

sebastianz 2y ago

There are electoral laws that state how political advertising can be done, and how it can be funded for an election campaign. Social media companies have to adhere to these laws - for example to say when something is an "Ad" paid by someone for the benefit of the candidate. In this case, apparently although TikTok was notified that a bot network controlled and paid for by nobody-knows-who was spamming election ads (untagged as such), and they ignored everything. This is all illegal.

RealityVoid 2y ago

Nothing this dude said is rooted in truth. It's just we're so stupid we'd turn out country into a dictatorship for nothing. There are real grievances, no doubt, but this guy was so full of hot air there is no reasonable explanation for buying into him except us being irreparably dumb.

ossobuco 2y ago
Just read the room, the far-right is winning across all of Europe, not just in Romania. It'd be more extraordinary if the left won the elections.

ricardobeat 2y ago

> we can't have democracy without giving up free speech Social media does NOT equal free speech. It’s clear by now that giving everyone “equal standing” in the ability to reach millions is a recipe for disaster, manipulation, hysteria, amplification of extremism, mental health decline, and so on… traditional media had social constraints and we need those back.

ossobuco 2y ago
> traditional media had social constraints and we need those back Sure, let's go back to only governments and bilionaires having access to media, that was so much better.
- data_maan 2y ago
  But the people that now supposedly defend free speech all ARE billionaires. Musk is a free speech absolutist (his words), yet biases his own companies algo to shove more of his stuff down my digital throat. I guess everyone is free to say stuff, but not everyone is free to see what people that are non-Musk writing? So much for free speech and billionaires.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  "Social media" is dominated by billionaires far more than "traditional" media ever was. Zuckerberg is worth 10 times what Rupert Murdoch is. Musk 30 x. And Murdoch is a huge outlier. Most traditional media is barely holding on by a shoestring.
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    And yet, my comments and posts can reach thousands of viewers with very little effort. There's no way I could do that with traditional media.
    - ricardobeat 2y ago
      And that is a good thing. That’s the whole point. You should go through a few layers of validation (journalist who has professional ethics, a publishing company with legal responsibility, etc). Especially if yours is a reasonable and polite voice. The guy who screams murder daily, spreads blood-boiling fake news and constantly causes controversy is gonna beat you by miles.
      - ossobuco 2y ago

xxs 2y ago

The free speech is a US thing. Most EU countries do have freedom of expression, but not 'free', speech. It comes from "European Convention on Human Rights" which has some limitations.