4 ms·

We take so much for granted. Living in a world without electricity, medicine, food scarcity, lack of safety net. Family didn't offer as much support as it ap

by ipaddr 2y ago

We take so much for granted. Living in a world without electricity, medicine, food scarcity, lack of safety net. Family didn't offer as much support as it appears. Average kids are working farms rich children are sent away to be raised. The social bonds of the modern world still exist in the same places as the past. It starts with the church.. so if you crave the social connections you can still go to church to find it.

brendoelfrendo 2y ago
You almost had a coherent point until the last sentence. I'll take my social bonds without the side-order of dogma, thanks.
- ipaddr 2y ago
  What bonds people in the past is religious dogma. We removed it and we wonder why our social bonds are so weak. I'm not suggesting we go back but we have nothing to replace it. The one thing a church did was welcome in everyone. We don't have places like that anymore.
  - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
    I guess I have to tell my local card shop to stop welcoming everyone on Commander night, because you're only allowed to do that if you're a church.
    - ipaddr 2y ago
      Welcoming people with money who buy cards as a promotion to sell goods. It's not a place to hold a wedding or funeral. You can't go inside and sit down without someone trying to sell you something. Some form of community can happen at a card shop. I use to hang around one when a was younger. Also got kicked out every now and then for hanging out too much.
      - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
        I got married in a public park. It was free and everyone can convene there. What it doesn't do is insulate you from people you may find disagreeable or distasteful, which a church does.
        ipaddr 2y ago
        Most places require a permit but aside from that, that's a personal event you invited people you know to. Everyone can't convene there. It's a one time event and because you pick the guests it does insulate you from people you find disagreeable.
        brendoelfrendo 2y ago
        Surely you are now arguing against your own point? If one holds a wedding at a church, it is typically not open to the public any more than a wedding in a park. "Wedding crashers" aside, you invite people you know and it is typically not expected nor desired for the general public to attend. It's nothing unusual; churches schedule time for weddings all the time, and then go right back to being a public gathering space once the event is over. I should add, since it's part of the core of this debate, that the idea that churches are universally welcoming or truly public is itself debatable: they hold a religious function and while churches are usually open to all attendees, you will struggle to find community there unless you share the religious beliefs of the other attendees. That is to say, the church as a structure is open to all; the church as a community is not. For what it's worth, my wedding was intentionally kept small, which allowed us to hold a ceremony without a permit and without closing off any public areas.
- FredPret 2y ago
  ipaddr has a point. The average person (non-scientist, non-technical) has replaced belief in the supernatural and the church with belief in science and the institutions of the state, and though there have been major improvements, we haven't completely refactored the old yet. Community and meaning is major functionality that we have yet to figure out anew.
  - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
    I mean, this is the concept of the "third space." They have existed throughout history and while churches are certainly one example, they are not the only example. A church (or temple or mosque or whatever) fills a certain community role as a gathering space for religious worship, but it's not the only place where you can meet and talk to people.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Come up with a third space to rival the church of old and you’ll be hailed as a cultural hero for the next millenium. Starbucks has not cut it.
      - acuozzo 2y ago
        Jim Rouse thought it would be the shopping mall and designed my city of residence (Columbia, MD) with the shopping mall at its center. It was a decent bet for 1967.
        brendoelfrendo 2y ago
        American shopping malls of the mid-to-late 20th century were a decent bet, but I think they fail because a) they're very pedestrian hostile, b) they tend to be owned by a singular landlord that can enforce policies that discourage gathering, and c) they just kind of smack of artificiality. But bazaars, street markets, and other commercial areas have certainly been third-places since before long before it was a defined term. Heck, the ancient Greeks were quite proud of their agora.

by ipaddr 2y ago

brendoelfrendo 2y ago

You almost had a coherent point until the last sentence. I'll take my social bonds without the side-order of dogma, thanks.

ipaddr 2y ago
What bonds people in the past is religious dogma. We removed it and we wonder why our social bonds are so weak. I'm not suggesting we go back but we have nothing to replace it. The one thing a church did was welcome in everyone. We don't have places like that anymore.
- brendoelfrendo 2y ago
  I guess I have to tell my local card shop to stop welcoming everyone on Commander night, because you're only allowed to do that if you're a church.
  - ipaddr 2y ago
    Welcoming people with money who buy cards as a promotion to sell goods. It's not a place to hold a wedding or funeral. You can't go inside and sit down without someone trying to sell you something. Some form of community can happen at a card shop. I use to hang around one when a was younger. Also got kicked out every now and then for hanging out too much.
    - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
      I got married in a public park. It was free and everyone can convene there. What it doesn't do is insulate you from people you may find disagreeable or distasteful, which a church does.
      - ipaddr 2y ago
        Most places require a permit but aside from that, that's a personal event you invited people you know to. Everyone can't convene there. It's a one time event and because you pick the guests it does insulate you from people you find disagreeable.
        brendoelfrendo 2y ago
        Surely you are now arguing against your own point? If one holds a wedding at a church, it is typically not open to the public any more than a wedding in a park. "Wedding crashers" aside, you invite people you know and it is typically not expected nor desired for the general public to attend. It's nothing unusual; churches schedule time for weddings all the time, and then go right back to being a public gathering space once the event is over. I should add, since it's part of the core of this debate, that the idea that churches are universally welcoming or truly public is itself debatable: they hold a religious function and while churches are usually open to all attendees, you will struggle to find community there unless you share the religious beliefs of the other attendees. That is to say, the church as a structure is open to all; the church as a community is not. For what it's worth, my wedding was intentionally kept small, which allowed us to hold a ceremony without a permit and without closing off any public areas.
FredPret 2y ago
ipaddr has a point. The average person (non-scientist, non-technical) has replaced belief in the supernatural and the church with belief in science and the institutions of the state, and though there have been major improvements, we haven't completely refactored the old yet. Community and meaning is major functionality that we have yet to figure out anew.
- brendoelfrendo 2y ago
  I mean, this is the concept of the "third space." They have existed throughout history and while churches are certainly one example, they are not the only example. A church (or temple or mosque or whatever) fills a certain community role as a gathering space for religious worship, but it's not the only place where you can meet and talk to people.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Come up with a third space to rival the church of old and you’ll be hailed as a cultural hero for the next millenium. Starbucks has not cut it.
    - acuozzo 2y ago
      Jim Rouse thought it would be the shopping mall and designed my city of residence (Columbia, MD) with the shopping mall at its center. It was a decent bet for 1967.
      - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
        American shopping malls of the mid-to-late 20th century were a decent bet, but I think they fail because a) they're very pedestrian hostile, b) they tend to be owned by a singular landlord that can enforce policies that discourage gathering, and c) they just kind of smack of artificiality. But bazaars, street markets, and other commercial areas have certainly been third-places since before long before it was a defined term. Heck, the ancient Greeks were quite proud of their agora.