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The documents explain clearly that thousands of sleeper accounts were activated days before the election and shared and promoted campaign material that was not

The documents explain clearly that thousands of sleeper accounts were activated days before the election and shared and promoted campaign material that was not marked as such in a highly coordinated way that suggests a state actor.

ossobuco 2y ago
So what is the problem here, that a state actor tried to influence the elections? Then why aren't we talking about the influence of NATO&co as well? Because that can be found everywhere, starting from google search results. Search "elena lasconi campaign donors" on google, you'll get exclusively results about "far right kremlin backed election interference". Repeat the search on yandex.ru and you'll get actual results about Elena Lasconi. The problem isn't really a state actor here; it's that people didn't vote the right way™. As to the effect a last minute campaign on TikTok can have on the elections, I wonder can you really sway 9 milions of votes in a few days on a platform that basically nobody over 30 years old uses? That must have been some incredibly good propaganda!
- throw_pm23 2y ago
  It was only ~2 million votes, as it was a first round with 10+ candidates. I disagree it was about voting the right way, it was about campaign law violation.
- cbg0 2y ago
  > Then why aren't we talking about the influence of NATO&co as well? Because that can be found everywhere, starting from google search results. Search "elena lasconi campaign donors" on google, you'll get exclusively results about "far right kremlin backed election interference". Repeat the search on yandex.ru and you'll get actual results about Elena Lasconi. NATO is a defensive military alliance. Has there been any proof that they're manipulating search results or social media sites? Also, regarding your Google search: the reason why you're getting poor results is because you're searching in English for a subject predominantly connected to romanian language sites.
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    > NATO is a defensive military alliance. Has there been any proof that they're manipulating search results or social media sites? Plenty, if you accept the possibility[0]. The US army is openly recruiting for PSYOPs[1] - https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63731751 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63731751 - https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/specialty-careers/special-ops/psychological-operations https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/specialty-careers/sp... > the reason why you're getting poor results is because you're searching in English for a subject predominantly connected to romanian language sites. Easily disproven by repeating the search in Romanian. Again, on google I get mostly results about Kremlin foreign election interference, while on yandex I only get relevant results. I tried several combinations of keywords.
    - data_maan 2y ago
      Does getting other results on Yandex make you trust them more? Is "different" for you "more true"?
      - I-M-S 2y ago
        Depends if it's different from a lie I guess
- exe34 2y ago
  how about filing your expenses according to the law?
- data_maan 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    Yeah that works great if you don't care about the truth. I do care, and I live within NATO borders, where NATO propaganda is incredibly pervasive and much stronger than any other propaganda from outside can be.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      NATO propaganda is incredibly pervasive and much stronger than any other propaganda from outside can be. Only because you don't see the latter (as propaganda). But rather as a sequence of neat-sounding, worldview-confirming factoids.
culi 2y ago
This happens all the time on major social media sites including reddit (in fact, it's quite easy for anybody to buy a reddit account with high karma). In the Depp vs Heard case that swept the internet it was found that both sides heavily used online bots to influence online dialog (tho Depp was better funded and obviously more successful)
- kspacewalk2 2y ago
  When your astroturfing is targeted at an election, and you get caught, the election can be annulled to ensure its integrity. What's the problem here, exactly?
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    The problem is simple, either that astroturfing is so effective because it's rooted in truth and resonates with the issues the electors are concerned with, or electors are so easily influenceable that we can't have democracy without giving up free speech. Pick one.
    - sebastianz 2y ago
      There are electoral laws that state how political advertising can be done, and how it can be funded for an election campaign. Social media companies have to adhere to these laws - for example to say when something is an "Ad" paid by someone for the benefit of the candidate. In this case, apparently although TikTok was notified that a bot network controlled and paid for by nobody-knows-who was spamming election ads (untagged as such), and they ignored everything. This is all illegal.
    - RealityVoid 2y ago
      Nothing this dude said is rooted in truth. It's just we're so stupid we'd turn out country into a dictatorship for nothing. There are real grievances, no doubt, but this guy was so full of hot air there is no reasonable explanation for buying into him except us being irreparably dumb.

ossobuco 2y ago

So what is the problem here, that a state actor tried to influence the elections? Then why aren't we talking about the influence of NATO&co as well? Because that can be found everywhere, starting from google search results. Search "elena lasconi campaign donors" on google, you'll get exclusively results about "far right kremlin backed election interference". Repeat the search on yandex.ru and you'll get actual results about Elena Lasconi. The problem isn't really a state actor here; it's that people didn't vote the right way™. As to the effect a last minute campaign on TikTok can have on the elections, I wonder can you really sway 9 milions of votes in a few days on a platform that basically nobody over 30 years old uses? That must have been some incredibly good propaganda!

throw_pm23 2y ago
It was only ~2 million votes, as it was a first round with 10+ candidates. I disagree it was about voting the right way, it was about campaign law violation.
cbg0 2y ago
> Then why aren't we talking about the influence of NATO&co as well? Because that can be found everywhere, starting from google search results. Search "elena lasconi campaign donors" on google, you'll get exclusively results about "far right kremlin backed election interference". Repeat the search on yandex.ru and you'll get actual results about Elena Lasconi. NATO is a defensive military alliance. Has there been any proof that they're manipulating search results or social media sites? Also, regarding your Google search: the reason why you're getting poor results is because you're searching in English for a subject predominantly connected to romanian language sites.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  > NATO is a defensive military alliance. Has there been any proof that they're manipulating search results or social media sites? Plenty, if you accept the possibility[0]. The US army is openly recruiting for PSYOPs[1] - https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63731751 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63731751 - https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/specialty-careers/special-ops/psychological-operations https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/specialty-careers/sp... > the reason why you're getting poor results is because you're searching in English for a subject predominantly connected to romanian language sites. Easily disproven by repeating the search in Romanian. Again, on google I get mostly results about Kremlin foreign election interference, while on yandex I only get relevant results. I tried several combinations of keywords.
  - data_maan 2y ago
    Does getting other results on Yandex make you trust them more? Is "different" for you "more true"?
    - I-M-S 2y ago
      Depends if it's different from a lie I guess
exe34 2y ago
how about filing your expenses according to the law?
data_maan 2y ago
[flagged]
- ossobuco 2y ago
  Yeah that works great if you don't care about the truth. I do care, and I live within NATO borders, where NATO propaganda is incredibly pervasive and much stronger than any other propaganda from outside can be.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    NATO propaganda is incredibly pervasive and much stronger than any other propaganda from outside can be. Only because you don't see the latter (as propaganda). But rather as a sequence of neat-sounding, worldview-confirming factoids.

culi 2y ago

This happens all the time on major social media sites including reddit (in fact, it's quite easy for anybody to buy a reddit account with high karma). In the Depp vs Heard case that swept the internet it was found that both sides heavily used online bots to influence online dialog (tho Depp was better funded and obviously more successful)

kspacewalk2 2y ago
When your astroturfing is targeted at an election, and you get caught, the election can be annulled to ensure its integrity. What's the problem here, exactly?
- ossobuco 2y ago
  The problem is simple, either that astroturfing is so effective because it's rooted in truth and resonates with the issues the electors are concerned with, or electors are so easily influenceable that we can't have democracy without giving up free speech. Pick one.
  - sebastianz 2y ago
    There are electoral laws that state how political advertising can be done, and how it can be funded for an election campaign. Social media companies have to adhere to these laws - for example to say when something is an "Ad" paid by someone for the benefit of the candidate. In this case, apparently although TikTok was notified that a bot network controlled and paid for by nobody-knows-who was spamming election ads (untagged as such), and they ignored everything. This is all illegal.
  - RealityVoid 2y ago
    Nothing this dude said is rooted in truth. It's just we're so stupid we'd turn out country into a dictatorship for nothing. There are real grievances, no doubt, but this guy was so full of hot air there is no reasonable explanation for buying into him except us being irreparably dumb.