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At best this comment implies there's actual an actual smoking gun related to what functionally are nation-state capability and operations to influence populatio
by wyldberry 2y ago
At best this comment implies there's actual an actual smoking gun related to what functionally are nation-state capability and operations to influence populations external to their own, specifically related to TikTok/ByteDance. If you have an AP government level understanding of how China and the USA work, then you can probably understand that this is an intersection of: government laws, great power competition, and wealth seeking behaviors. When you control the algorithm, everyone downstream of it is at the mercy of the power structures and incentives of your top level leadership [0]. Consider the following:
1.) How Chinese companies interact with the CCP: they are 100% subservient with a CCP party member who can pull the CEO in at anytime and assign them tasks related to studying Xi thought and other party material, as well as demand the company do anything for the state.
2.) What great power competition looks like including economic warfare (tariffs, massive state subsidies to protect national defense, influence operations for allies, securing raw materials, reducing reliance on rivals, etc).
3.) How espionage in general works in support of political aims, and especially how each nation uses it to further their goals. For China, it's always been about vacuuming up as much data as possible, and then later on finding use cases for it. The disruption side of their practices are successful if they make chaos in an adversary that forces them to spend time on dealing with that instead of confronting them. Each nation acts in their own interest and are absolutely ruthless here in a way the average person rarely can comprehend.
4.) The free pass given to China related to tech and social media industries. American Social Media is banned in China[1]. Why do you think that is? There are many reports/cases of American intel/military use cases of social media to influence outcomes worldwide[2]. China wasn't going to allow this. But we are supposed to allow them access to us? We know this is the case because we would do the same in their position[3]. There's a reason it's banned in India[4].
5.) We know China influences the Douyin algorithm[5] locally to promote behaviors the government perceives as healthy or important to state interests. This often manifests in pushing more STEM related content and suppressing the ragebait content that flourishes in other nations[6].
Even if the leadership of Bytedance were 100% on board with not pushing CCP interests to the USA and world, there's no mechanism of protection or redress from them. The CCP can, and will, disappear high profile people at will with no repercussion, and replace you with someone who will listen. Any smart nation who wants to protect the minds of their citizens would do well to extremely regulate social media in their country.
In your case for "Americans upset over Israeli treatment of civilians". Assuming that the American outrage is 100% organic on it's own: It is in the best interest of China to amplify that outrage and make it seem stronger than it is for a variety of reasons:
A. This will have knock on effects for policy makers and their aides who are hyper-tuned in because if their constituents want something, voting for that is how
B. Anything that disrupts American foreign policy and allies is an asset at weakening the grip the dollar has on international markets
C. Israel is an extremely talented producer of technical people. If the relationship between the USA and Israel sours, then suddenly a pathway opens for China to get access to the incredible tech that Israel develops for various US programs. (This is also ignoring their incredibly advanced spyware capabilities in their private sector, which is morally repugnant, but it does exist).
[0] - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2209.07663 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2209.07663
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...
[2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20160410083943/http://www.redditblog.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html?m=1 https://web.archive.org/web/20160410083943/http://www.reddit... (look at the most addicted cities)
[3] - https://theintercept.com/2022/12/20/twitter-dod-us-military-accounts/ https://theintercept.com/2022/12/20/twitter-dod-us-military-...
[4] - https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-bytedance-ban-china-india-376f32d78861e14e65ec4bc78e808a0d https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-bytedance-ban-china-india-...
[5] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY
[6] - https://networkcontagion.us/reports/the-ccps-digital-charm-offensive/ https://networkcontagion.us/reports/the-ccps-digital-charm-o...
[7] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/25/the-growing-list-of-chinese-elites-who-disappear-but-later-resurface-subdued https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/25/the-growing-li...
- whatshisface 2y agoIf we are working on the basis of "it could have happened, therefore it did," Americans could have had a legitimate reaction to the war footage, and Romanians could have been frustrated with both major parties and voted for a spoiler candidate, therefore they did. :-)
- wyldberry 2y agoI'm probably responding to you being intentionally obtuse but: Assuming that's true, TikTok, at the behest of the CCP, can (and will) amplify the reach of that outrage to an outsized impact. If the outrage is 5% of TikTok users in the given nation, and that 5% is thrown into the FYP of 50% of the users in that nation, that's an impact that any power that be dreams to have.
- troyvit 2y agoThis is an extremely well formed comment, and thanks for all the sources backing it up. > Any smart nation who wants to protect the minds of their citizens would do well to extremely regulate social media in their country. Extremely regulating social media isn't going to decrease the gormlessness of the population. In fact it'll probably make it worse. We can try to tamp down manipulative content all we want but it's a losing battle. What we need instead is to educate our masses. The problem is we won't, because our regulators want to be able to manipulate us. They just don't want other countries to be able to.
- whatshisface 2y agoI still can't believe we're supposed to imagine the current or next president as the chief protectors of our minds, of all things. :-) How can anyone desire that much paternalism from our government? Not only are we responsible for it, not the other way around, it is kind of terrible!
- aprilthird2021 2y ago> It is in the best interest of China to amplify that outrage and make it seem stronger than it is for a variety of reasons: I'm just not comfortable with a widely used platform for Americans to speak to other Americans being taken away because it might skew one way politically or another, no matter what evil country is advantaged by that. Even if it were heavily edited by enemy of USA Xi himself, I am uncomfortable with that. We are not a country that bans things because it's too dangerous for people to know them. The government doesn't get to decide what's good for us to learn and say and hear. We do. That's the entire idea of free speech. And this tramples on it significantly