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That sounds....huge. I know many working couples where one would probably take that in a heartbeat. You lose some money, but gain more family time and sanity. H

That sounds....huge. I know many working couples where one would probably take that in a heartbeat. You lose some money, but gain more family time and sanity. Having Friday to finish chores and being able to enjoy the weekend unstressed is huge, not to mention clocking out early each day to be able to pick up your kid and not have to get back to work or whatever.

Heliosmaster 2y ago
Yep, completely agree. After having our kid both me and my wife work 80% so we have one extra day at home. Huge.
jajko 2y ago
Not sure about rest of the world, but here in Switzerland mothers often take Wednesdays off - first years of school its not on Wednesdays, and then it starts with just mornings. Wife has it and she repeatedly claimed that she will never go back to 5 days workweek. Most employers, be it private or state ones have 0 issues with this setup. 20% less, maybe 15% net income less ain't that huge of a deal - if it is, something ain't right in your finances anyway. What is gained is very well worth it, time with parents is crucial in many ways for small kids and if that window is missed you can't make it up later. Catching up with stuff like bureaucracy which is unavailable during weekends is possible only during such time. Its true that having kids fundamentally changed my view on wealth and how much should I pursue higher paychecks, life is darn short anyway and double that with kids. I am switching to 90% contract from 1.1.2025 - working usual 5 days a week but having altogether 48.5 MDs of paid vacation (90% of 25MDs I had on 100% + 0.5 MD per each week in year, our HR recipe). It feels like being a teacher but on corporate paycheck (and work intensity). Even with 4 mortgages (for 2 properties) and no family to help financially if we hit hardships, this was a nobrainer. Other aspect would be retiring in 60 (max 61), but that's too far down the line to care much about now. I am looking very much into spending that time on family and myself. One needs to be happy or at least content with its own life to make others happy too, and thats not achievable easily in rat races. For such benefits alone I don't care about higher paychecks, money only can get you so far in life.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- jefbyokyie 2y ago
  > 20% less, maybe 15% net income less ain't that huge of a deal - if it is, something ain't right in your finances anyway or else, something maybe horribly broken in your country. I'm happy for you, that you can easily dismiss 15% net income. Try that in Hungary, where generally two full time jobs together are nearly insufficient just to stay afloat. > One needs to be happy or at least content with its own life to make others happy too, and thats not achievable easily in rat races Very true, which is why mental health issues are rampant in the Eastern Bloc.
  - StefanBatory 2y ago
    Doesn't help that the average attitude of people here of mental health is that it doesn't exist. My family used to believe, adn they still do, that the only reason you'd go to psychiatrist is because you're "weird" and that only crazies who belong in mental hospital go there...
chachacharge 2y ago
I kind of doubt this will be adopted practically in Japan. The old people get time off and leave work early in Japan by privilege and the young break themselves and any rule they need to permit it. The young would even lie about taking time off to make the boss look good, even taking less pay to sell the lie. Who can have kids when you already have to change everyone's diaper.
- encoderer 2y ago
  Fascinating. Is the loyalty reciprocated?
  - wubrr 2y ago
    If the subordinates have to lie about taking time off, and intentionally accept lower pay for the benefit of their superiors - then no, it's definitely not reciprocated. I'd argue the subordinates are straight up being abused in this case.
    - l33tbro 2y ago
      I'm not saying you are wrong here, but I think it is important to ground all of these old:young dynamics in culture. 'Subordinate', to me, is a very western lens and looks past the crucial point that the Japanese view power structures with far more optimism than we do. Japan clearly has its own problems, but honour and duty play a significant part in their culture and, admirably, contributes to the creation of a high-trust society.
      - coliveira 2y ago
        Arguably, the Japanese view a society that takes care of the elderly with respect as a benefit to themselves. In the other hand, it is a characteristic of Western society to see every moment as an opportunity to make immediate profits, even at the expense of their own future.
        2y ago
cavisne 2y ago
The issue is in corporate jobs (including tech) Friday is a very relaxed day. If you are working a shorter week than everyone else, you end up doing the same amount of work in less time for less money.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  I did this a few years ago at a company I was a partner in. We had a busy season where folks did overtime. The expectation for salaried employees was a 4-day, 35 hour week, but during that 3-4 week period, it may surge more. 35 hour weeks used to be pretty common in a lot of businesses before the overtime rules were watered down.
- ghaff 2y ago
  My experience, especially post-COVID, is that meetings on Friday are discouraged and nobody blinks at noon departures. Etc. Not quite a four-day work week but came pretty close for a lot of folks.
- NoLinkToMe 2y ago
  Agreed, the Friday is essentially the day with the highest pay:effort ratio. It's a 20% salary for relatively little effort. And given a ratio of 80% spending and 20% saving, that Friday can be the difference between living paycheck-to-paycheck and early retirement. Essentially if you make 5k a month, spend 4k and invest 1k at an 8% ROI from age 25, you'll have: 180k, 570k and 1400k at age 35, 45 and 55 respectively. If you live off of 4% of that, you'll have a passive income of $0.6k, $1.9k and $4.6k respectively at the same ages. In other words working that relaxed Friday from age 25 and investing the proceeds, will get you to the point that you passively earn the same as you did working Monday through Thursday by age 52 or so, without working again. And that's true for any income, at those same ratios. For many tech jobs the salaries are so high that you can feasibly get to early retirement in your 30s. There's a lot to be said about the power of a 3-day weekend though. It's not just that you get an extra day of weekend, you also lose a day of work. Expressed as a ratio, is when it clicked for me: You go from 5:2 to 4:3, or in other words: 2.5 days of work for every 1 day of leisure -> 1.3 days of work for every 1 day of leisure. It's approximately twice as good a ratio. And you really feel it, you feel rested and refreshed. I'm still doing 5d a week. For me the holy grail is to find a company that does 36h contracts with fulltime pay, where you have a 4 day week every other week. All the benefits of full pay, the occasional relaxed friday, but also two long weekends each month allowing trips, hobbies, projects, rest etc.
colechristensen 2y ago
A long time ago when I was an intern at a defense contractor my boss was a woman who had worked her whole career 30 hours a week and was very happy about it, kept it up even when her kids were graduating high school. I also enjoyed the 9/80 schedule there, nominally 9 hour days with a little flexibility with every other Friday off for everyone.
blendo 2y ago
Prior to retirement, I cut back to 32 hrs/week at 80% pay (well, closer to 85% because I kept my full health). I backfilled the pay cut by beginning a small 401k withdrawl. All of a sudden, every Thursday evening felt like the start of vacation!
- ghaff 2y ago
  It sort of happened with me by default. Probably didn't take as much advantage as I should. And "retirement" is much less retirement than it could be.
EasyMark 2y ago
I worked out a 9hr/4 days week with my current company, I get more work done in those 36 hours than I did in the 40 hours before because I’m more relaxed after a long weekend and considerably happier
viraptor 2y ago
I took that option 4 years ago and wouldn't go back now. It's not worth the increase in money vs the life improvement.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  That's only because you have enough money. There's plenty of people who are still financially short after a 40h job.
znpy 2y ago
> You lose some money, but gain more family time and sanity. Having Friday to finish chores and being able to enjoy the weekend unstressed is huge during my last job search i was thinking exactly the same. id' hapily give up the usual 10-15% pay rise i look for when hopping from one job to another, maybe even consider giving up a 5-15% in order to get a 4-days work week. I'm not rich by any means, but right now in my life "more money" don't appeal to me that much but more free time certainly does.
neycoda 2y ago
Too many people in the US are living paycheck to paycheck on hourly wages, many with two people in the household working full-time. This is becoming normal. A 4-day workweek will hurt them.
- dlmilli 2y ago
  [dead]
- BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
  not if they get to work 4 days and get paid 5

Heliosmaster 2y ago

Yep, completely agree. After having our kid both me and my wife work 80% so we have one extra day at home. Huge.

jajko 2y ago

Not sure about rest of the world, but here in Switzerland mothers often take Wednesdays off - first years of school its not on Wednesdays, and then it starts with just mornings. Wife has it and she repeatedly claimed that she will never go back to 5 days workweek. Most employers, be it private or state ones have 0 issues with this setup. 20% less, maybe 15% net income less ain't that huge of a deal - if it is, something ain't right in your finances anyway. What is gained is very well worth it, time with parents is crucial in many ways for small kids and if that window is missed you can't make it up later. Catching up with stuff like bureaucracy which is unavailable during weekends is possible only during such time. Its true that having kids fundamentally changed my view on wealth and how much should I pursue higher paychecks, life is darn short anyway and double that with kids. I am switching to 90% contract from 1.1.2025 - working usual 5 days a week but having altogether 48.5 MDs of paid vacation (90% of 25MDs I had on 100% + 0.5 MD per each week in year, our HR recipe). It feels like being a teacher but on corporate paycheck (and work intensity). Even with 4 mortgages (for 2 properties) and no family to help financially if we hit hardships, this was a nobrainer. Other aspect would be retiring in 60 (max 61), but that's too far down the line to care much about now. I am looking very much into spending that time on family and myself. One needs to be happy or at least content with its own life to make others happy too, and thats not achievable easily in rat races. For such benefits alone I don't care about higher paychecks, money only can get you so far in life.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jefbyokyie 2y ago
> 20% less, maybe 15% net income less ain't that huge of a deal - if it is, something ain't right in your finances anyway or else, something maybe horribly broken in your country. I'm happy for you, that you can easily dismiss 15% net income. Try that in Hungary, where generally two full time jobs together are nearly insufficient just to stay afloat. > One needs to be happy or at least content with its own life to make others happy too, and thats not achievable easily in rat races Very true, which is why mental health issues are rampant in the Eastern Bloc.
- StefanBatory 2y ago
  Doesn't help that the average attitude of people here of mental health is that it doesn't exist. My family used to believe, adn they still do, that the only reason you'd go to psychiatrist is because you're "weird" and that only crazies who belong in mental hospital go there...

chachacharge 2y ago

I kind of doubt this will be adopted practically in Japan. The old people get time off and leave work early in Japan by privilege and the young break themselves and any rule they need to permit it. The young would even lie about taking time off to make the boss look good, even taking less pay to sell the lie. Who can have kids when you already have to change everyone's diaper.

encoderer 2y ago
Fascinating. Is the loyalty reciprocated?
- wubrr 2y ago
  If the subordinates have to lie about taking time off, and intentionally accept lower pay for the benefit of their superiors - then no, it's definitely not reciprocated. I'd argue the subordinates are straight up being abused in this case.
  - l33tbro 2y ago
    I'm not saying you are wrong here, but I think it is important to ground all of these old:young dynamics in culture. 'Subordinate', to me, is a very western lens and looks past the crucial point that the Japanese view power structures with far more optimism than we do. Japan clearly has its own problems, but honour and duty play a significant part in their culture and, admirably, contributes to the creation of a high-trust society.
    - coliveira 2y ago
      Arguably, the Japanese view a society that takes care of the elderly with respect as a benefit to themselves. In the other hand, it is a characteristic of Western society to see every moment as an opportunity to make immediate profits, even at the expense of their own future.
      - 2y ago

cavisne 2y ago

The issue is in corporate jobs (including tech) Friday is a very relaxed day. If you are working a shorter week than everyone else, you end up doing the same amount of work in less time for less money.

Spooky23 2y ago
I did this a few years ago at a company I was a partner in. We had a busy season where folks did overtime. The expectation for salaried employees was a 4-day, 35 hour week, but during that 3-4 week period, it may surge more. 35 hour weeks used to be pretty common in a lot of businesses before the overtime rules were watered down.
ghaff 2y ago
My experience, especially post-COVID, is that meetings on Friday are discouraged and nobody blinks at noon departures. Etc. Not quite a four-day work week but came pretty close for a lot of folks.
NoLinkToMe 2y ago
Agreed, the Friday is essentially the day with the highest pay:effort ratio. It's a 20% salary for relatively little effort. And given a ratio of 80% spending and 20% saving, that Friday can be the difference between living paycheck-to-paycheck and early retirement. Essentially if you make 5k a month, spend 4k and invest 1k at an 8% ROI from age 25, you'll have: 180k, 570k and 1400k at age 35, 45 and 55 respectively. If you live off of 4% of that, you'll have a passive income of $0.6k, $1.9k and $4.6k respectively at the same ages. In other words working that relaxed Friday from age 25 and investing the proceeds, will get you to the point that you passively earn the same as you did working Monday through Thursday by age 52 or so, without working again. And that's true for any income, at those same ratios. For many tech jobs the salaries are so high that you can feasibly get to early retirement in your 30s. There's a lot to be said about the power of a 3-day weekend though. It's not just that you get an extra day of weekend, you also lose a day of work. Expressed as a ratio, is when it clicked for me: You go from 5:2 to 4:3, or in other words: 2.5 days of work for every 1 day of leisure -> 1.3 days of work for every 1 day of leisure. It's approximately twice as good a ratio. And you really feel it, you feel rested and refreshed. I'm still doing 5d a week. For me the holy grail is to find a company that does 36h contracts with fulltime pay, where you have a 4 day week every other week. All the benefits of full pay, the occasional relaxed friday, but also two long weekends each month allowing trips, hobbies, projects, rest etc.

colechristensen 2y ago

A long time ago when I was an intern at a defense contractor my boss was a woman who had worked her whole career 30 hours a week and was very happy about it, kept it up even when her kids were graduating high school. I also enjoyed the 9/80 schedule there, nominally 9 hour days with a little flexibility with every other Friday off for everyone.

blendo 2y ago

Prior to retirement, I cut back to 32 hrs/week at 80% pay (well, closer to 85% because I kept my full health). I backfilled the pay cut by beginning a small 401k withdrawl. All of a sudden, every Thursday evening felt like the start of vacation!

ghaff 2y ago
It sort of happened with me by default. Probably didn't take as much advantage as I should. And "retirement" is much less retirement than it could be.

EasyMark 2y ago

I worked out a 9hr/4 days week with my current company, I get more work done in those 36 hours than I did in the 40 hours before because I’m more relaxed after a long weekend and considerably happier

viraptor 2y ago

I took that option 4 years ago and wouldn't go back now. It's not worth the increase in money vs the life improvement.

Cumpiler69 2y ago
That's only because you have enough money. There's plenty of people who are still financially short after a 40h job.

znpy 2y ago

> You lose some money, but gain more family time and sanity. Having Friday to finish chores and being able to enjoy the weekend unstressed is huge during my last job search i was thinking exactly the same. id' hapily give up the usual 10-15% pay rise i look for when hopping from one job to another, maybe even consider giving up a 5-15% in order to get a 4-days work week. I'm not rich by any means, but right now in my life "more money" don't appeal to me that much but more free time certainly does.

neycoda 2y ago

Too many people in the US are living paycheck to paycheck on hourly wages, many with two people in the household working full-time. This is becoming normal. A 4-day workweek will hurt them.

dlmilli 2y ago
[dead]
BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
not if they get to work 4 days and get paid 5