3 ms·

This was not about privacy. This is about CCP using disinformation to sway populations in a democratic country.

by cscurmudgeon 2y ago

gpm 2y ago
The ruling actually spends quite a bit of time talking about the privacy justification as well.
- sanderjd 2y ago
  Yeah, but it's still a distraction from the real issue.
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    The excuse of misinformation is also fud. Facebook help Trump get elected in 2016 through the whole Cambridge Analytica fiasco. Facebook paid a paltry fine and the executives from Cambridge Analytica formed another company named Emerdata. There would be no need to take action specifically against Tiktok if legislation was the stick given to all companies but lobbyist don't want to crack down domestically.
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      It's not about misinformation either. It's about control over the algorithm that chooses what people see.
    - cscurmudgeon 2y ago
      > Facebook help Trump get elected in 2016 through the whole Cambridge Analytica fiasco This comment is FUD though. Did FB do it intentionally?
Spivak 2y ago
Yeah! We like our organized disinformation campaigns to be made in the USA instead. It's frankly an embarrassing look for the US if we go through with this on these grounds because we're basically saying we can't weather targeted disinformation and propaganda while simultaneously deploying them in our own house. You can't make people in the US believe anything. We had the full force of US government pulling every lever they had access to get people to get vaccinated and wear a mask and it still didn't work. Even when (arguably) they had the truth on their side. There's no way we're admitting China outclassed us.
- cscurmudgeon 2y ago
  Disinformation is bad from any source, but it is much worse if it comes from a foreign adversary govt. Also, the US acts against misinformation from with US too. https://www.npr.org/2024/06/26/nx-s1-5003970/supreme-court-social-media-case https://www.npr.org/2024/06/26/nx-s1-5003970/supreme-court-s... Honestly, I never understood arguments like this. What next? 1. Why should only the US govt tax Americans, we should also let CCP tax Americans. 2. Why should only the US govt police Americans, we should also let CCP police Americans. > You can't make people in the US believe anything. We had the full force of US government pulling every lever they had access to get people to get vaccinated and wear a mask and it still didn't work. Even when (arguably) they had the truth on their side. There's no way we're admitting China outclassed us. You are conflating many things. CCP doesn't have to sway the average American. It only has to sway fringe groups at critical moments/places. That is much more easy.
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    When you make strawmen like "Lets let the CCP tax Americans" I can't take you seriously.
    - immibis 2y ago
      To accept the strawman rebuttal I have to be able to figure out what differentiates your actual position from the strawman, which I can't. You implicitly claim that the Chinese government should be able to do to US citizens everything that the US government can do to US citizens. To which two counter-examples were provided.
    - cscurmudgeon 2y ago
      1. Yeah, that's not my argument. My main argument is that there is a false equivalence drawn between US and CCP govts. That's not what a straw man. 2. Apparently, you take the original argument US and CCP are equivalent seriously. If so, I can't your argument seriously and it needs to mocked with equivalences like what I was going for. That was the argument I was responding to.
  - 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

This was not about privacy. This is about CCP using disinformation to sway populations in a democratic country.

gpm 2y ago

The ruling actually spends quite a bit of time talking about the privacy justification as well.

sanderjd 2y ago
Yeah, but it's still a distraction from the real issue.
- BadHumans 2y ago
  The excuse of misinformation is also fud. Facebook help Trump get elected in 2016 through the whole Cambridge Analytica fiasco. Facebook paid a paltry fine and the executives from Cambridge Analytica formed another company named Emerdata. There would be no need to take action specifically against Tiktok if legislation was the stick given to all companies but lobbyist don't want to crack down domestically.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    It's not about misinformation either. It's about control over the algorithm that chooses what people see.
  - cscurmudgeon 2y ago
    > Facebook help Trump get elected in 2016 through the whole Cambridge Analytica fiasco This comment is FUD though. Did FB do it intentionally?

Spivak 2y ago

Yeah! We like our organized disinformation campaigns to be made in the USA instead. It's frankly an embarrassing look for the US if we go through with this on these grounds because we're basically saying we can't weather targeted disinformation and propaganda while simultaneously deploying them in our own house. You can't make people in the US believe anything. We had the full force of US government pulling every lever they had access to get people to get vaccinated and wear a mask and it still didn't work. Even when (arguably) they had the truth on their side. There's no way we're admitting China outclassed us.

cscurmudgeon 2y ago
Disinformation is bad from any source, but it is much worse if it comes from a foreign adversary govt. Also, the US acts against misinformation from with US too. https://www.npr.org/2024/06/26/nx-s1-5003970/supreme-court-social-media-case https://www.npr.org/2024/06/26/nx-s1-5003970/supreme-court-s... Honestly, I never understood arguments like this. What next? 1. Why should only the US govt tax Americans, we should also let CCP tax Americans. 2. Why should only the US govt police Americans, we should also let CCP police Americans. > You can't make people in the US believe anything. We had the full force of US government pulling every lever they had access to get people to get vaccinated and wear a mask and it still didn't work. Even when (arguably) they had the truth on their side. There's no way we're admitting China outclassed us. You are conflating many things. CCP doesn't have to sway the average American. It only has to sway fringe groups at critical moments/places. That is much more easy.
- BadHumans 2y ago
  When you make strawmen like "Lets let the CCP tax Americans" I can't take you seriously.
  - immibis 2y ago
    To accept the strawman rebuttal I have to be able to figure out what differentiates your actual position from the strawman, which I can't. You implicitly claim that the Chinese government should be able to do to US citizens everything that the US government can do to US citizens. To which two counter-examples were provided.
  - cscurmudgeon 2y ago
    1. Yeah, that's not my argument. My main argument is that there is a false equivalence drawn between US and CCP govts. That's not what a straw man. 2. Apparently, you take the original argument US and CCP are equivalent seriously. If so, I can't your argument seriously and it needs to mocked with equivalences like what I was going for. That was the argument I was responding to.
- 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

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