4 ms·

Its a give and take. If you allow for anything beyond latin, then you have to accept that there will be a class of software that will be difficult to interact w

Its a give and take. If you allow for anything beyond latin, then you have to accept that there will be a class of software that will be difficult to interact with. Latin-like language system is simply superior for machine purposes. I am sorry, but I don't even want to think of supporting the entire unicode in my software. I am not going to even attempt to reverse that emoji.

chikere232 2y ago
It gets real fun when it's something you need to look up and have match, like a username. Because then it to be normalised in the right way for comparisons to work, or it will only match if your input method happens to produce the exact same variant. ... And unicode is an evolving standard where this normalisation sometimes changes between standards, so the names as normalised in the old version of your standard library might disagree with the new version. So you need to care for that transition. ... And often this is implemented separately for different languages, so you can get names that won't match if you normalise them in python, java or C. ... And as all implementations, these unicode implementations sometimes have bugs, so you need to think not only about matching supported unicode versions, but matching bugs. ... And any change in these normalisations can in theory lead to two usernames that used to be distinct becoming identical. It's a deep well
- khaled 2y ago
  > And unicode is an evolving standard where this normalisation sometimes changes between standards Unicode normalization is subject to its stability policy, and Unicode no longer allow adding new canonically equivalent code points. https://www.unicode.org/policies/stability_policy.html https://www.unicode.org/policies/stability_policy.html
adrian_b 2y ago
There are many variants of the Latin alphabet and the English alphabet contains only a subset of the letters contained in the other variants. There is no reason to consider the English alphabet as superior for machine purposes, in comparison to other Latin alphabets. Its dominance in IT is caused by the fact that most of the development of commercial computers after WWII has been done at IBM and other US companies, not by any properties of the English alphabet.
gspr 2y ago
> Its a give and take. If you allow for anything beyond latin, then you have to accept that there will be a class of software that will be difficult to interact with. For whom? Presumably people won't choose a username themselves that is difficult _for them_ to input. It's not like allowing (a subset of) Unicode would force people with near-ASCII keyboards to deviate from what's easy for them to input. > Latin-like language system is simply superior for machine purposes. Citation needed. Besides, on the systems we're talking about at least, the machine itself works with integral UIDs, not user names. > I am sorry, but I don't even want to think of supporting the entire unicode in my software. What does that even mean? Why is your software doing operations on people's names, beyond storing and retrieving them? > I am not going to even attempt to reverse that emoji. Is there any legitimate use case for reversing someone's name??
- anon-3988 2y ago
  > Is there any legitimate use case for reversing someone's name?? Yes, when you want to reverse sort a list? In fact, how do you even sort such a name that goes in both direction? > What does that even mean? Why is your software doing operations on people's names, beyond storing and retrieving them? A lot of software deals with text. I don't think every software should deal with the entirety of Unicode. There shouldn't be an expectation that all text editor should handle all Unicode. Just like I don't expect a Chinese keyboard and software should work for Latin keyboard and software. In my personal code editor, I handle text byte per byte, so text highlighting, reversing, lookup, etc are simple and efficient. Would it be a problem if I try to open a Chinese text? Yes, but I have accepted that it is a class of problem that I don't want to deal with. I have not seen an open source software that have gracefully handled Unicode, outside of Chrome or something really big. Pretty much every one of them is "errr how does this work again?". How many times have people simply split a text using whitespace? So lets just say I don't have confidence in people doing this correctly. I know I don't.

chikere232 2y ago

It gets real fun when it's something you need to look up and have match, like a username. Because then it to be normalised in the right way for comparisons to work, or it will only match if your input method happens to produce the exact same variant. ... And unicode is an evolving standard where this normalisation sometimes changes between standards, so the names as normalised in the old version of your standard library might disagree with the new version. So you need to care for that transition. ... And often this is implemented separately for different languages, so you can get names that won't match if you normalise them in python, java or C. ... And as all implementations, these unicode implementations sometimes have bugs, so you need to think not only about matching supported unicode versions, but matching bugs. ... And any change in these normalisations can in theory lead to two usernames that used to be distinct becoming identical. It's a deep well

khaled 2y ago
> And unicode is an evolving standard where this normalisation sometimes changes between standards Unicode normalization is subject to its stability policy, and Unicode no longer allow adding new canonically equivalent code points. https://www.unicode.org/policies/stability_policy.html https://www.unicode.org/policies/stability_policy.html

adrian_b 2y ago

There are many variants of the Latin alphabet and the English alphabet contains only a subset of the letters contained in the other variants. There is no reason to consider the English alphabet as superior for machine purposes, in comparison to other Latin alphabets. Its dominance in IT is caused by the fact that most of the development of commercial computers after WWII has been done at IBM and other US companies, not by any properties of the English alphabet.

gspr 2y ago

> Its a give and take. If you allow for anything beyond latin, then you have to accept that there will be a class of software that will be difficult to interact with. For whom? Presumably people won't choose a username themselves that is difficult _for them_ to input. It's not like allowing (a subset of) Unicode would force people with near-ASCII keyboards to deviate from what's easy for them to input. > Latin-like language system is simply superior for machine purposes. Citation needed. Besides, on the systems we're talking about at least, the machine itself works with integral UIDs, not user names. > I am sorry, but I don't even want to think of supporting the entire unicode in my software. What does that even mean? Why is your software doing operations on people's names, beyond storing and retrieving them? > I am not going to even attempt to reverse that emoji. Is there any legitimate use case for reversing someone's name??

anon-3988 2y ago
> Is there any legitimate use case for reversing someone's name?? Yes, when you want to reverse sort a list? In fact, how do you even sort such a name that goes in both direction? > What does that even mean? Why is your software doing operations on people's names, beyond storing and retrieving them? A lot of software deals with text. I don't think every software should deal with the entirety of Unicode. There shouldn't be an expectation that all text editor should handle all Unicode. Just like I don't expect a Chinese keyboard and software should work for Latin keyboard and software. In my personal code editor, I handle text byte per byte, so text highlighting, reversing, lookup, etc are simple and efficient. Would it be a problem if I try to open a Chinese text? Yes, but I have accepted that it is a class of problem that I don't want to deal with. I have not seen an open source software that have gracefully handled Unicode, outside of Chrome or something really big. Pretty much every one of them is "errr how does this work again?". How many times have people simply split a text using whitespace? So lets just say I don't have confidence in people doing this correctly. I know I don't.