4 ms·

How much will your first indie game make?

22 points by bemmu 14y ago

pliny 14y ago
Beside the point: why do the pictures lean when I mouse over them? Who thought this was a good idea? What does this accomplish?
- dsirijus 14y ago
  They want to take you on a boat ride.
- shuaib 14y ago
  Also, the font size could do well a few points larger.
- MSM 14y ago
  This really tripped me out the first time I did it, I thought I had too much caffeine already! Actually, I kind of liked it.. though I have no idea why. Gimmicky.
debacle 14y ago
Shouldn't the answer overwhelmingly be $0?
- espinchi 14y ago
  The median of the revenue of an indie game is definitely very close to 0. What they've done here is pretty impressive, congrats to the organizers and students involved.
shangaslammi 14y ago
Selling the game to a single, publisher-like entity through negotiation seems like a pretty old-fashioned way to do it and an especially bad fit for a low-budget indie game. It would have been interesting to compare numbers if some of the teams would have thrown their project to e.g. Kickstarter or sold it directly to consumers via Steam or similar service.
- dsirijus 14y ago
  That would require much bigger production and creative quality.
- zaguios 14y ago
  If all of their other games are flash games like High Vaultage then it makes sense to use the normal sponsorship model. The only other real ways of monetizing in the flash industry include ads and non-exclusive licenses which generally both make considerably less than a primary or exclusive license of the game. There is no way first time game developers could get their games on steam. If High Vaultage was their best game then they would be laughed away pretty quickly judging by how it scored on the popular portals such as Kongregate and Newgrounds. As an experienced flash game developer myself I have managed to make a game in a day that scored better on both those sites and probably also received more plays overall. In order for Kickstarter to work properly for a game you need to have a pretty huge following. First time developers have no following; so unless they strike a chord with the gaming community, it would be fruitless.
dsirijus 14y ago
It is interesting to note how the biggest earner (High Vaultage) is a straight up generic launcher game clone. The general fault of indie game developing is the lack of proper motivation. Most just try to grab some money without real development team, and hope to live of it. Now, that can work, but rarely. Succesful attempts at that are succesful under many conditions: being meticulous with development, aiming for lowest common denominator gameplay, not trying to innovate and preferably clone popular mechanics, and having discipline to ship it. Examples: Cyclomaniacs, Burrito Bison, Kingdom Rush. In my book, that's not indie, it's built on monetization from starting game design. And that's precisely why it fails. The process at most sucessful indie games was actually quite opposite. Let's create something we want to play, and meanwhile or even just at the end of it, try to monetize. Or not even bother with it. Examples: Braid, World of Goo, Meatboy. EDIT: Added some reference game titles.
- zaguios 14y ago
  Are you calling Cyclomaniacs, Burrito Bison, and Kingdom Rush non-innovative or are you saying they're the mechanics that everyone copies? None of those games had original mechanics, but they each added something new to their respective genres (Especially Cyclomaniacs). I'm a fairly successful flash game developer, and while I do try to innovate with some of my games, I find just as much success by using popular mechanics. However, I do try to add in a twist or two. All games can be traced back to a similar game that came before it, building something with monetization in mind doesn't make you any less of a developer. There's also a huge difference between flash games and normal PC games. It's not economically feasible to spend a long time making extremely high quality and unique games in flash since there have only been a handful of games to ever earn more than about $20,000. As you said, the goal is to get as many people as possible to like it, not target a niche that really really likes it. Meatboy was a flash game to begin with, but it was nowhere near the quality of the Super Meatboy and I can guarantee it made nowhere near as much money. The mechanic used is also nothing original.
  - dsirijus 14y ago
    >> Are you calling Cyclomaniacs, Burrito Bison, and Kingdom Rush non-innovative? Yes, I do. In fact, the author does too. 4:24 PM [dsirijus] LongAnimals, for the record, do you think Cyclomaniacs is an innovative game? 4:24 PM [LongAnimals] no 4:24 PM [LongAnimals] it's a ripoff 4:24 PM [dsirijus] thank you >> there have only been a handful of games to ever earn more than about $20,000 Yes, a handful EVERY MONTH on just a particular distribution channel. https://www.fgl.com/report_monthly_site_sales.php https://www.fgl.com/report_monthly_site_sales.php
talmand 14y ago
I find it interesting that a portion of their grade is influenced by factors somewhat outside of their control. Just because they were unable to successfully negotiate a deal during the seminar doesn't necessarily mean it's a game that won't sell, they may just need another round of negotiations. Plus if the motivation was to complete negotiations for a good grade, then why not just offer the game for $1? Was there some kind of threshold they had to meet to be considered a "success"? But it is an interesting concept. I've seen similar thoughts with web design courses; teach web design/development while building a website for a paying client.
- dsirijus 14y ago
  On wholly another level, you're great. The most awesome thing to do on that semester would be to create a game you love, and if it doesn't sell, sell it for a buck. Creative on so many levels.
  - talmand 14y ago
    Well, many people make games that they loved making and then release them for free. Money is not always the only factor involved. But my comment is about the course itself, not the games they make during the course nor their emotional attachment to said games. The purpose of the course was to learn something about business and that hopefully results in a good grade. My question about the threshold is because, from what I read, it might be possible to learn something, make a good grade, and not make any money. So was making a certain amount of money a requirement to be considered a success to get a good grade? I see nothing wrong with my question or comment. Your sarcastic response is not helpful.
    - dsirijus 14y ago
      Haha. It wasn't sarcastic at all, I just applauded idea of passing the course by selling for a $1.
      - talmand 14y ago

22 points by bemmu 14y ago

pliny 14y ago

Beside the point: why do the pictures lean when I mouse over them? Who thought this was a good idea? What does this accomplish?

dsirijus 14y ago
They want to take you on a boat ride.
shuaib 14y ago
Also, the font size could do well a few points larger.
MSM 14y ago
This really tripped me out the first time I did it, I thought I had too much caffeine already! Actually, I kind of liked it.. though I have no idea why. Gimmicky.

debacle 14y ago

Shouldn't the answer overwhelmingly be $0?

espinchi 14y ago
The median of the revenue of an indie game is definitely very close to 0. What they've done here is pretty impressive, congrats to the organizers and students involved.

shangaslammi 14y ago

Selling the game to a single, publisher-like entity through negotiation seems like a pretty old-fashioned way to do it and an especially bad fit for a low-budget indie game. It would have been interesting to compare numbers if some of the teams would have thrown their project to e.g. Kickstarter or sold it directly to consumers via Steam or similar service.

dsirijus 14y ago
That would require much bigger production and creative quality.
zaguios 14y ago
If all of their other games are flash games like High Vaultage then it makes sense to use the normal sponsorship model. The only other real ways of monetizing in the flash industry include ads and non-exclusive licenses which generally both make considerably less than a primary or exclusive license of the game. There is no way first time game developers could get their games on steam. If High Vaultage was their best game then they would be laughed away pretty quickly judging by how it scored on the popular portals such as Kongregate and Newgrounds. As an experienced flash game developer myself I have managed to make a game in a day that scored better on both those sites and probably also received more plays overall. In order for Kickstarter to work properly for a game you need to have a pretty huge following. First time developers have no following; so unless they strike a chord with the gaming community, it would be fruitless.

dsirijus 14y ago

It is interesting to note how the biggest earner (High Vaultage) is a straight up generic launcher game clone. The general fault of indie game developing is the lack of proper motivation. Most just try to grab some money without real development team, and hope to live of it. Now, that can work, but rarely. Succesful attempts at that are succesful under many conditions: being meticulous with development, aiming for lowest common denominator gameplay, not trying to innovate and preferably clone popular mechanics, and having discipline to ship it. Examples: Cyclomaniacs, Burrito Bison, Kingdom Rush. In my book, that's not indie, it's built on monetization from starting game design. And that's precisely why it fails. The process at most sucessful indie games was actually quite opposite. Let's create something we want to play, and meanwhile or even just at the end of it, try to monetize. Or not even bother with it. Examples: Braid, World of Goo, Meatboy. EDIT: Added some reference game titles.

zaguios 14y ago
Are you calling Cyclomaniacs, Burrito Bison, and Kingdom Rush non-innovative or are you saying they're the mechanics that everyone copies? None of those games had original mechanics, but they each added something new to their respective genres (Especially Cyclomaniacs). I'm a fairly successful flash game developer, and while I do try to innovate with some of my games, I find just as much success by using popular mechanics. However, I do try to add in a twist or two. All games can be traced back to a similar game that came before it, building something with monetization in mind doesn't make you any less of a developer. There's also a huge difference between flash games and normal PC games. It's not economically feasible to spend a long time making extremely high quality and unique games in flash since there have only been a handful of games to ever earn more than about $20,000. As you said, the goal is to get as many people as possible to like it, not target a niche that really really likes it. Meatboy was a flash game to begin with, but it was nowhere near the quality of the Super Meatboy and I can guarantee it made nowhere near as much money. The mechanic used is also nothing original.
- dsirijus 14y ago
  >> Are you calling Cyclomaniacs, Burrito Bison, and Kingdom Rush non-innovative? Yes, I do. In fact, the author does too. 4:24 PM [dsirijus] LongAnimals, for the record, do you think Cyclomaniacs is an innovative game? 4:24 PM [LongAnimals] no 4:24 PM [LongAnimals] it's a ripoff 4:24 PM [dsirijus] thank you >> there have only been a handful of games to ever earn more than about $20,000 Yes, a handful EVERY MONTH on just a particular distribution channel. https://www.fgl.com/report_monthly_site_sales.php https://www.fgl.com/report_monthly_site_sales.php

talmand 14y ago

I find it interesting that a portion of their grade is influenced by factors somewhat outside of their control. Just because they were unable to successfully negotiate a deal during the seminar doesn't necessarily mean it's a game that won't sell, they may just need another round of negotiations. Plus if the motivation was to complete negotiations for a good grade, then why not just offer the game for $1? Was there some kind of threshold they had to meet to be considered a "success"? But it is an interesting concept. I've seen similar thoughts with web design courses; teach web design/development while building a website for a paying client.

dsirijus 14y ago
On wholly another level, you're great. The most awesome thing to do on that semester would be to create a game you love, and if it doesn't sell, sell it for a buck. Creative on so many levels.
- talmand 14y ago
  Well, many people make games that they loved making and then release them for free. Money is not always the only factor involved. But my comment is about the course itself, not the games they make during the course nor their emotional attachment to said games. The purpose of the course was to learn something about business and that hopefully results in a good grade. My question about the threshold is because, from what I read, it might be possible to learn something, make a good grade, and not make any money. So was making a certain amount of money a requirement to be considered a success to get a good grade? I see nothing wrong with my question or comment. Your sarcastic response is not helpful.
  - dsirijus 14y ago
    Haha. It wasn't sarcastic at all, I just applauded idea of passing the course by selling for a $1.
    - talmand 14y ago