4 ms·

Doesn't mean there isn't some meaningful signal in its results. Signal/noise ratio might be lower than with actual science, but there is so much data using the

Doesn't mean there isn't some meaningful signal in its results. Signal/noise ratio might be lower than with actual science, but there is so much data using the framework that the signal part is still useful.

jcranmer 2y ago
... That is kinda what it means though: the apparent success of the framework would come not from being grounded in any truth but from humans mistaking noise for signal. Are you going to argue that astrology has meaningful signal? (Although, that said, the one thing of MBTI that does comport with modern understanding of personality is that introversion-extroversion is one of the main axes, although unlike MBTI's theory, it's more of a gaussian normal distribution than a bimodal distribution).
- madcaptenor 2y ago
  Does MBTI ever really say that the distributions are supposed to be bimodal? My impression was that it's not quantitatively rigorous enough to say that it makes that claim, but I could be wrong.
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    The basic theory of MBTI is that it doesn't really matter what degree of introvert you are, it's the difference between introvert and extrovert that matters, and that there's not really a group of people who are neither introverts nor extroverts (which is how it differs from other personality theories, including the one it's based on). Granted, this part of the theory doesn't really get explored much in its usage in popular psychology.
    - ulbu 2y ago
      and if someone is veering very strongly onto one side to the detriment of another, we get pathologies. like people who can never stay with themselves without great despair or make a decision of their own, or incels and racists who are thoroughly incapable of fitting into their world the autonomy of the object, building their life around the idea of subjecting it to their will.

4 ms·

Doesn't mean there isn't some meaningful signal in its results. Signal/noise ratio might be lower than with actual science, but there is so much data using the

by salomonk_mur 2y ago

jcranmer 2y ago
... That is kinda what it means though: the apparent success of the framework would come not from being grounded in any truth but from humans mistaking noise for signal. Are you going to argue that astrology has meaningful signal? (Although, that said, the one thing of MBTI that does comport with modern understanding of personality is that introversion-extroversion is one of the main axes, although unlike MBTI's theory, it's more of a gaussian normal distribution than a bimodal distribution).
- madcaptenor 2y ago
  Does MBTI ever really say that the distributions are supposed to be bimodal? My impression was that it's not quantitatively rigorous enough to say that it makes that claim, but I could be wrong.
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    The basic theory of MBTI is that it doesn't really matter what degree of introvert you are, it's the difference between introvert and extrovert that matters, and that there's not really a group of people who are neither introverts nor extroverts (which is how it differs from other personality theories, including the one it's based on). Granted, this part of the theory doesn't really get explored much in its usage in popular psychology.
    - ulbu 2y ago
      and if someone is veering very strongly onto one side to the detriment of another, we get pathologies. like people who can never stay with themselves without great despair or make a decision of their own, or incels and racists who are thoroughly incapable of fitting into their world the autonomy of the object, building their life around the idea of subjecting it to their will.