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They incentivize collecting sensitive data about people. They incentivize businesses to maximize for engagement which generally promotes harmful content over i

They incentivize collecting sensitive data about people. They incentivize businesses to maximize for engagement which generally promotes harmful content over informational content. Empty informational calories.

left-struck 2y ago
To be fair advertising without collecting sensitive data does exist. I think the collection of sensitive data is a more serious issue so let’s not say all ads are abusive in that way. However, I agree with the position that all ads with some small exceptions are a negative thing. I think the incentives behind advertising are inherently perverse because of what they are at their core, an attempt to manipulate (if they work then a successful attempt!). They are dishonest and inauthentic by design. It’s possible to create an ad that is like “hey this thing exists and this is strictly what it does without any exaggeration” but that basically never happens because the people who make ads have no external incentive to do that. I think a much more ideal situation is where a user searches for something on a search engine, or an LLM or whatever, and they are shown as unbiased as possible results. This way the people making good products get their exposure and the people looking stuff get the stuff they want. Of course there’s a lot of problems in practice with that as well. I don’t claim to have a solution, and I don’t think making an add is like super immoral, but I think ads are a scourge on our society and culture.
- ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
  Yes, I agree, and I also don't think that ads in printed newspapers and magazines are a problem, for example. If I were to propose a general law to regulate advertisements, then it would be that if you serve content that qualifies as being an advertisement to a user, then the choice of advertisement must be independent of any data about that user. This includes the username and any details the user has entered or which has been collected as the user has been using the service, and also any ephemeral data associated with the session such as IP address. That is, the choice of ad is completely parametric in the user; if two users request the content from different locations, then they should in principle be served the same ad (ignoring other state such as ad impression counters which would still be allowed). This would probably not be good for the ad-tech industry but I think it could remove many of the perverse incentives leading to excessive data collection.
rpastuszak 2y ago
I'll add: in practice its goal is not to solve a problem, but to create a need.
- ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
  Good point. I suppose the theoretical utility of advertisement is to supply information to consumers about what the market offers so consumers can seek out suppliers that fulfill their demands. Supplying that kind of information to consumers provides utility for both the supplier and the consumer. This goal can also be accomplished without unsolicited advertisement but using directories where consumers can look up suppliers based on their needs. Unsolicited advertisement tries to induce a sense of demand in consumers which they didn't have to begin with. This is done using many different tactics, e.g. by disguising the true cost, exaggerating the benefits or simply misinforming. This tips the utility in favor of the supplier while making it harder for the consumer to navigate the market.

left-struck 2y ago

To be fair advertising without collecting sensitive data does exist. I think the collection of sensitive data is a more serious issue so let’s not say all ads are abusive in that way. However, I agree with the position that all ads with some small exceptions are a negative thing. I think the incentives behind advertising are inherently perverse because of what they are at their core, an attempt to manipulate (if they work then a successful attempt!). They are dishonest and inauthentic by design. It’s possible to create an ad that is like “hey this thing exists and this is strictly what it does without any exaggeration” but that basically never happens because the people who make ads have no external incentive to do that. I think a much more ideal situation is where a user searches for something on a search engine, or an LLM or whatever, and they are shown as unbiased as possible results. This way the people making good products get their exposure and the people looking stuff get the stuff they want. Of course there’s a lot of problems in practice with that as well. I don’t claim to have a solution, and I don’t think making an add is like super immoral, but I think ads are a scourge on our society and culture.

ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
Yes, I agree, and I also don't think that ads in printed newspapers and magazines are a problem, for example. If I were to propose a general law to regulate advertisements, then it would be that if you serve content that qualifies as being an advertisement to a user, then the choice of advertisement must be independent of any data about that user. This includes the username and any details the user has entered or which has been collected as the user has been using the service, and also any ephemeral data associated with the session such as IP address. That is, the choice of ad is completely parametric in the user; if two users request the content from different locations, then they should in principle be served the same ad (ignoring other state such as ad impression counters which would still be allowed). This would probably not be good for the ad-tech industry but I think it could remove many of the perverse incentives leading to excessive data collection.

rpastuszak 2y ago

I'll add: in practice its goal is not to solve a problem, but to create a need.

ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
Good point. I suppose the theoretical utility of advertisement is to supply information to consumers about what the market offers so consumers can seek out suppliers that fulfill their demands. Supplying that kind of information to consumers provides utility for both the supplier and the consumer. This goal can also be accomplished without unsolicited advertisement but using directories where consumers can look up suppliers based on their needs. Unsolicited advertisement tries to induce a sense of demand in consumers which they didn't have to begin with. This is done using many different tactics, e.g. by disguising the true cost, exaggerating the benefits or simply misinforming. This tips the utility in favor of the supplier while making it harder for the consumer to navigate the market.