3 ms·

480MWh is ~7kW for 3k people used continuously for an entire day. That looks gigantic unless you heat your entire house with resistive heating. One day for 20k

by Krssst 2y ago

480MWh is ~7kW for 3k people used continuously for an entire day. That looks gigantic unless you heat your entire house with resistive heating. One day for 20k inhabitants makes more sense I think. (1kW constant consumption)

realusername 2y ago
France has 40% electric heating so yes 2k inhabitants is realistic. In relative terms compared to other batteries it might look gigantic but at the country scale it's pretty tiny.
- deleted 2y ago
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- Krssst 2y ago
  Even with resistive heating you don't use 7kW 100% of the time unless you are an extremely rich person attemping to heat multiple rooms all the time. 480MWh with 2k inhabitants would be 240kWh per inhabitant per day, or 7200 kWh per month. With 0.25eur/kWh (hard to find an official source, but that's the figure that comes up - https://selectra.info/energie/electricite/prix https://selectra.info/energie/electricite/prix ), this would be 1800 euros per month per person. This is more than the minimal monthly salary in France, so the 2k inhabitants figure does not look realistic. I don't know much about who is using resistive heating, but I would bet on people in flats using resistive heating more (which have less surface area to heat) and houses using gas and biomass more. I am not saying that this battery specifically will change anything at the country scale (having buffering capacity for 20k inhabitants for one day is nothing compared to 70M inhabitants total). I am just contesting a figure that I find very hard to believe.
  - Sayrus 2y ago
    > hard to find an official source RTE provides live spot prices on eco2mix [1]. There is also prices that are regulated, the current price for this offer is indeed 0.2516 eur/kWh so your calculation is spot on. [1] https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/les-donnees-de-marche https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/les-donnees-de-marche
- audunw 2y ago
  What are you talking about? I live in Norway, much further north. We all use electric heating. My highest power usage this December was 41kWh in a day. Less than 2kW continuous usage. Yesterday was 25kWh. Yes, we have a heat pump. If you do electric heating that’s a complete no brainer these days. It’s just plain stupid and waste of money not to convert to heat pump if you need heating at all in winter. For a country like France it makes even more sense: we don’t need air conditioning in summer here. But France can have some nasty heat waves. So you’ll get some utility in both summer and winter. And the silliest thing about this argument is that supplying 100% of the power of a household isn’t even a meaningful metric right now. The most important job of a grid storage battery these days is to flatten out the duck curve. In some years we may be talking about providing some seasonal balancing, but then the construction of a battery storage plant this size won’t be news. It’ll be an average Tuesday.

by Krssst 2y ago

realusername 2y ago

France has 40% electric heating so yes 2k inhabitants is realistic. In relative terms compared to other batteries it might look gigantic but at the country scale it's pretty tiny.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Krssst 2y ago
Even with resistive heating you don't use 7kW 100% of the time unless you are an extremely rich person attemping to heat multiple rooms all the time. 480MWh with 2k inhabitants would be 240kWh per inhabitant per day, or 7200 kWh per month. With 0.25eur/kWh (hard to find an official source, but that's the figure that comes up - https://selectra.info/energie/electricite/prix https://selectra.info/energie/electricite/prix ), this would be 1800 euros per month per person. This is more than the minimal monthly salary in France, so the 2k inhabitants figure does not look realistic. I don't know much about who is using resistive heating, but I would bet on people in flats using resistive heating more (which have less surface area to heat) and houses using gas and biomass more. I am not saying that this battery specifically will change anything at the country scale (having buffering capacity for 20k inhabitants for one day is nothing compared to 70M inhabitants total). I am just contesting a figure that I find very hard to believe.
- Sayrus 2y ago
  > hard to find an official source RTE provides live spot prices on eco2mix [1]. There is also prices that are regulated, the current price for this offer is indeed 0.2516 eur/kWh so your calculation is spot on. [1] https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/les-donnees-de-marche https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/les-donnees-de-marche
audunw 2y ago
What are you talking about? I live in Norway, much further north. We all use electric heating. My highest power usage this December was 41kWh in a day. Less than 2kW continuous usage. Yesterday was 25kWh. Yes, we have a heat pump. If you do electric heating that’s a complete no brainer these days. It’s just plain stupid and waste of money not to convert to heat pump if you need heating at all in winter. For a country like France it makes even more sense: we don’t need air conditioning in summer here. But France can have some nasty heat waves. So you’ll get some utility in both summer and winter. And the silliest thing about this argument is that supplying 100% of the power of a household isn’t even a meaningful metric right now. The most important job of a grid storage battery these days is to flatten out the duck curve. In some years we may be talking about providing some seasonal balancing, but then the construction of a battery storage plant this size won’t be news. It’ll be an average Tuesday.