5 ms·

If you aren’t doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?

sbalough 2y ago
Copy cat killers or just harassment? But, I guess the less smart perpetrators since it’s a public company and the info is in filings.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Because innocent people have never been murdered?
- zaik 2y ago
  Innocent people in the business of denying coverage to the sick and the dying.
  - jmye 2y ago
    Great, when are you going to blame the people who are actually, actively responsible? Are you going to start shooting the claims processors who push the button? Or is this just more deranged, terminally online teenagers screaming about things they don’t, even vaguely, understand as usual? So tired of the dumbest people having the loudest voices online because populist bumper stickers work better than actual thoughtful commentary.
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    Lancet estimated 68,000 lives a year might be saved moving to a single payer system: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0140673619330193 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01406... Surely not all that blood is on the hands of the CEO, or even UHC. But everyone has either been denied claims or knows someone that has, through some of the most disgusting treatment witnessable from corporate america. It'd be one thing if you were denied a claim for.... any variety of reasons that follow from the inherent difficulty of managing health insurance as many countries can attest to. But overriding doctor concerns to withhold funding for necessary treatment and withholding as much as possible while raking in profits leaves people with very bitter tastes in their mouths. Mine included: I'm paying for a medical procedure for a friend next week because her insurance won't cover anesthesia and she can't afford the out of pocket. I had multiple relatives die much sooner than they had to because they were denied funding for critical medication. I've had multiple friends talk about "rationing insulin" (thankfully, both times referring to the past). And naturally healthcare interests—UHC included—lobby both parties heavily, so there's a lot of incentive to continue ignoring the elephant in the room.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      The job of health insurance is to vet and deny claims. Their pay is regulated and capped by law as a percent of benefits. The fewer benefits they provide, the less they make. This is the system Americans have chosen. Im not saying its the best or shouldnt be improved. Im for a public option, but there will still be rationing and denial of care. people will still die.
      - scarecrowbob 2y ago
        I didn't choose it, it was chosen for me. And you can say "that's democracy", but it doesn't change the fact that "Americans have chosen" is wildly different than saying "I have chosen" and has radically different and wide-spread implications. "People will still die" is the kind of thing narcissists and sociopaths tell themselves when they are pretty sure that the set of "people" does not include themselves.
      - quickthrowman 2y ago
        > The job of health insurance is to vet and deny claims. It would be nice if they did that consistently and fairly, but they don’t. Using an AI to review and deny claims with a (claimed) 90% error rate or denying claims without reading them is not vetting, it’s straight up negligence and fraud. https://arstechnica.com/health/2023/11/ai-with-90-error-rate-forces-elderly-out-of-rehab-nursing-homes-suit-claims/ https://arstechnica.com/health/2023/11/ai-with-90-error-rate... https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health-insurance-rejection-claims https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health...
      - hulitu 2y ago
        > This is the system Americans have chosen Some (few) of them. In EU it is different.
        nozzlegear 2y ago
        > Some (few) of them. The majority of American voters have chosen this system multiple times, and have voted for a president who has explicitly said he'll make this system worse by repealing the ACA. He almost did it the first time, too, and it only failed by one vote. Maybe this UHC CEO event will get more people talking about healthcare, and ultimately get more people voting for candidates who want to improve the system next time around. I support a public option, so I hope it does. But I won't hold my breath.
wmf 2y ago
The definition of "wrong" appears to be flexible.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  The public reaction has been unsympathetic to the victim and unsurprised. I think the definition of "wrong" that plausibly inspired the shooter is widely-held.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    The words written on the casings found on scene, “Deny Defend Depose”, is the name of a book that talks about the unethical and illegal practices of the healthcare industry. That book is “Delay, Deny, Defend”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay%2C_Deny%2C_Defend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay%2C_Deny%2C_Defend
- _gmax0 2y ago
  Hasn't it always been flexible?
  - Nasrudith 2y ago
    Yes, hence why "if you have nothing to hide" is infamously so stupid a phrase. You don't get to decide that, the accuser does and who the accuser is may vary and may in fact be utterly deranged by all normal points of view. You don't want the information out there period because it can only end in an especially twisted form of Pascal's Wager based upon who is in power at the moment. And that this is not in fact a paranoid hypothetical but something very real which has happened throughout history.

Copy cat killers or just harassment? But, I guess the less smart perpetrators since it’s a public company and the info is in filings.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

Because innocent people have never been murdered?

zaik 2y ago
Innocent people in the business of denying coverage to the sick and the dying.
- jmye 2y ago
  Great, when are you going to blame the people who are actually, actively responsible? Are you going to start shooting the claims processors who push the button? Or is this just more deranged, terminally online teenagers screaming about things they don’t, even vaguely, understand as usual? So tired of the dumbest people having the loudest voices online because populist bumper stickers work better than actual thoughtful commentary.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  Lancet estimated 68,000 lives a year might be saved moving to a single payer system: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0140673619330193 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01406... Surely not all that blood is on the hands of the CEO, or even UHC. But everyone has either been denied claims or knows someone that has, through some of the most disgusting treatment witnessable from corporate america. It'd be one thing if you were denied a claim for.... any variety of reasons that follow from the inherent difficulty of managing health insurance as many countries can attest to. But overriding doctor concerns to withhold funding for necessary treatment and withholding as much as possible while raking in profits leaves people with very bitter tastes in their mouths. Mine included: I'm paying for a medical procedure for a friend next week because her insurance won't cover anesthesia and she can't afford the out of pocket. I had multiple relatives die much sooner than they had to because they were denied funding for critical medication. I've had multiple friends talk about "rationing insulin" (thankfully, both times referring to the past). And naturally healthcare interests—UHC included—lobby both parties heavily, so there's a lot of incentive to continue ignoring the elephant in the room.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    The job of health insurance is to vet and deny claims. Their pay is regulated and capped by law as a percent of benefits. The fewer benefits they provide, the less they make. This is the system Americans have chosen. Im not saying its the best or shouldnt be improved. Im for a public option, but there will still be rationing and denial of care. people will still die.
    - scarecrowbob 2y ago
      I didn't choose it, it was chosen for me. And you can say "that's democracy", but it doesn't change the fact that "Americans have chosen" is wildly different than saying "I have chosen" and has radically different and wide-spread implications. "People will still die" is the kind of thing narcissists and sociopaths tell themselves when they are pretty sure that the set of "people" does not include themselves.
    - quickthrowman 2y ago
      > The job of health insurance is to vet and deny claims. It would be nice if they did that consistently and fairly, but they don’t. Using an AI to review and deny claims with a (claimed) 90% error rate or denying claims without reading them is not vetting, it’s straight up negligence and fraud. https://arstechnica.com/health/2023/11/ai-with-90-error-rate-forces-elderly-out-of-rehab-nursing-homes-suit-claims/ https://arstechnica.com/health/2023/11/ai-with-90-error-rate... https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health-insurance-rejection-claims https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health...
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > This is the system Americans have chosen Some (few) of them. In EU it is different.
      - nozzlegear 2y ago
        > Some (few) of them. The majority of American voters have chosen this system multiple times, and have voted for a president who has explicitly said he'll make this system worse by repealing the ACA. He almost did it the first time, too, and it only failed by one vote. Maybe this UHC CEO event will get more people talking about healthcare, and ultimately get more people voting for candidates who want to improve the system next time around. I support a public option, so I hope it does. But I won't hold my breath.

wmf 2y ago

The definition of "wrong" appears to be flexible.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago
The public reaction has been unsympathetic to the victim and unsurprised. I think the definition of "wrong" that plausibly inspired the shooter is widely-held.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  The words written on the casings found on scene, “Deny Defend Depose”, is the name of a book that talks about the unethical and illegal practices of the healthcare industry. That book is “Delay, Deny, Defend”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay%2C_Deny%2C_Defend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay%2C_Deny%2C_Defend
_gmax0 2y ago
Hasn't it always been flexible?
- Nasrudith 2y ago
  Yes, hence why "if you have nothing to hide" is infamously so stupid a phrase. You don't get to decide that, the accuser does and who the accuser is may vary and may in fact be utterly deranged by all normal points of view. You don't want the information out there period because it can only end in an especially twisted form of Pascal's Wager based upon who is in power at the moment. And that this is not in fact a paranoid hypothetical but something very real which has happened throughout history.